Certainly, they would not interact like a hetero woman and as a bonus, I can imagine the comments afterwards about how dissappointed/disgusted she is with his performance, or even that it’s guys like him that create lesbians like her. Or even

“the comments about sex with a men being ‘abuse’ only applies to a very small minority of lesbians”

Umm.. No. If we’re really talking about genuine lesbians (homosexual women), that is. Bisexual women are a different issue. But even in the case of a bisexual woman I believe it’s wrong to tell her to go and have sex with a male if she’s in a commited relationship and so on. Like I’ve said earlier in this thread: having sexual intercourse has a lot more meanings and consequences than just insemination.

But I understand why some guys are saying that lesbians and bisexual women should just go out and get impregnated by intercourse. They’re of course hoping they would get lucky.

I don’t think you can automatically call people who switch their sexual orientations bisexual. It’s such a complicated case when people change their orientation. People choose anyway themselves whatever labels they want to wear.

Isn’t it a much less controversial definition of bisexuality to classify as such someone for whom it doesn’t matter if it’s a man or a woman or even if it matters when dating, both are still generally viewed as desirable by such a person?

People who go from straight to gay or from gay to straight can identify very strongly with their new orientation and feel that their previous orientation was a case of false consciousness. Other people can simply first date a man, then a woman and say it’s the person, not the sex that attracted them. Indeed people date or even marry for other reasons than sex in any case. Some people go for the money, to name one example.

“Sexual orientation does not change but your sexual behaviour may vary due to many different reasons. There are three basic orientations (homosexual, bisexual, heterosexual) and it seems that “pure” heterosexuals are almost as rare as “pure” homosexuals.”

– Perhaps that is the view from where you sit where everyone around you is either gay or bisexual. Are you saying that it is so rare to be a pure homosexual? If that is the case, then the comments about sex with a men being ‘abuse’ only applies to a very small minority of lesbians.

Oh yes, adding abortion into this equation and we have now turned pregnancy into somrthing that can be turned on and off. Just like a lightbulb. I guess that’s a victory for the feminist movement.

My point was to show an example on the fact that the sex of the gender has an influence on the psycologycal development. Modern psycology studied this as well elaborating new theories, making new studies and so on.

Nowadays, the number of these studies are limited and research should be carried on a higher number of gay/lesbian couples with children to have more statistically valid results.

There is no evidence on whether the child would miss something or not, even though he would miss for sure the presence of both Father and Mother role.

You think it does not matter, and that is fine with me. We have different opinions. I appreciated the dialogue with you as it has been much more constructive than with others…

Why shall I talk to you, if I receive insults in exchange?!? Who gives you the right to tell me to use my brains?!? Who tells you you are right and I am wrong and even so, who gives you the right to insult me based on my opinion?

I am not racist, I am not against gays/lesbians, I am trying to explain my legitimate opinion to disagree with this issue.

Why? You want to have the last word?

Sexual orientation does not change but your sexual behaviour may vary due to many different reasons. There are three basic orientations (homosexual, bisexual, heterosexual) and it seems that “pure” heterosexuals are almost as rare as “pure” homosexuals. In other words, the vast majority of people are somewhere in between, that is bisexuals. A bisexual person can be more attracted to one sex than the other, thus living the life of a “gay” or “straight” person.

Bisexuality can have many different ways of manifesting. It doesn’t have to mean that person is simultaneously attracted to both sexes equally (though even that kind of bisexuals exist, of course). Bisexual person can also be attracted to different sexes in different times in his or her life. When he or she acts accordingly it might seem, for an observers, that the persons sexual orientation “changes”.

You bigoted views and pseudoscience claims are the only thing you can come up with.

As I said Homosexual parents are just as capable of raising their kids like the rest of us (of course my experience is only subjective and doesn’t count as scientific reseacrh). Show me a study that says otherwise (As you seem to claim your stance on *science* instead of your moral code) and please no Freud crap.

As Åboy said his cult has been debunked a long time ago.

What I am getting at is that sexuality can change. And therefore a debate over what kind of couples can adpt or raise kids is sort of a joke, because the straight couple that adopts or is inseminated may one day dissolve, and the woman who raises the child may decide after many years of identifying as straight that she is now a lesbian.

Can this be the last post? Please?

As psychology, social sciences and neurosciences have advanced and more scientific knowledge has been gained, Freud and his religion of psychoanalysis has pretty much been discredited. Modern psychology has very little to do with Freuds musings and a lot to do with clinical and empirical evidence and reasearch.

Freuds theories do not seem to hold and that’s no surprise, considering that he made them up from single cases and from anecdotal observations. His methods of “research” were highly unscientific. He also said that if someone was to listen to his theories they should take them as they are, no remodelling. But enough of Freud, there’s volumes of empirical evidence against him and his cult.

giustino and buddies,

What’s with the black and white world? Are you truly so ignorant that you’ve never heard of bisexuals?

You say that kids of same sex couples are missing out on something. But on the flip side kids of male-female couples are missing out on something too. They might be different but it doesn’t mean one is inferior to the other.

That’s interesting. I remember, in about 3rd grade, there was a girl who used to invite me to look under the table to view her snatch. This was on days when she wore dresses of course. Sometimes she’d do it for a cookie; but usually for free.

Well, surprisingly, she is now a bigtime lezbo! Sometimes it causes me to question whether I am to blame somehow…..and then I question why she never invited me into one of her lezbo love-sessions. After all, we were once so close

My interest in this topic comes from a perspective that values efficiency. While you are all debating the ethics and morals of the situation, I am merely asking basic questions like: “why is sex holy but fertilization is clinical?” Because it seems from most posters that sex with another person is something deeply personal, spiritual, a sacred cow that should not be addressed in debate. But the actual act of fertilization is treated as a medical occurrence, like having a minor surgery. My guess is that if we can’t see or feel it, it is meaningless to us. These are my questions. I am not getting involved in the ethics debate. I am not sure what my ethics are and I certainly don’t think I am in any place to espouse a certain moral code.

(I think it’s especially quite common for US lesbians to have kids)

Well, that’s because many of them are former heterosexuals. I’ve known plenty of people whose parents woke up in mid-life and decided that they were closeted homosexuals. The former governor of New Jersey not withstanding.

I have also had lesbian friends who were once straight, then became ‘lesbians’, and then became straight again. The ’causes’ of this phenomena vary. Some people just are lesbians – always have been. In third grade, you knew they were different.

Then there are those who genuinely fear males – they were abused and cannot distinguish, for example, between sex with a male and physical abuse. So they date women. I have even known ‘fair weather lesbians’ – that is, they date women because they don’t have a lot of male interest, but when a male suitor comes a long, they ditch their girlfriends and date the male.

Take the high-profile case of Cynthia Nixon. Currently she’s a ‘lesbian’ because she’s in a female-female partnership. But before that she was heterosexual because she was in a relationship with a man with whom she has two children. Then there’s Ani DiFranco who was a ‘lesbian icon’ before she married a man. She divorced him, but now she’s pregnant with her current producer’s child. The gay community felt betrayed. Their favorite lesbian had gone straight.

So where does that leave us in the ethics debate? If sexuality is as fluid as our little pop culture/personal experience of lesbians show it to be, then straight mothers married to men may very well become lesbians at some point, and artificially inseminated lesbian moms may very well become (or become again) heterosexual.

Therefore, the ethics debate is a waste of time.

“Dario missed my point of course there are millions of examples where a child brought up in a heterosexual family turns out fine.”

Then you recognize that the story you wrote had absolutely nothing to do with what you wanted to say. It proves nothing, it is useless.

“My point was that the sexes of the parents is a non-issue, it is ridicolous to say…”

How do you know that? Any hard fact? Any study?It is just your opinion.

I report what I wrote previously. Nobody replied to that (intentionally?).

Mother and Father role are not the same and have a different impact on the child development. This is also related with the sex of the parent. It is not me saying this, but psichology.

For example, Sigmund Freud presented the Oedipus complex, which affect the first five years of the child when he is more “connected” to the mother that to the father.

Electra complex is the same phenomenon in girls towards their father.

In case of parents of the same sex one of the two phenomenons (there are many others, these are just examples!) will not be experienced by the child. Is this positive? Is this negative? What is the effect of this?

I am just defending the role of Father and Mother. Both of them are extremely important and I am saying that it is important to do our best to give the child the possibility to grow up in a family where both are present.