As long as babyboomers are still economically active, many employers haven’t really had the need to hire immigrants. Now things are changing fast; by 2010 pretty much every babyboomer has retired, and rest assured, the very high unemployment rates among immigrants are going to change for the better. The question is how much better. We cannot just take 100’000 immigrants in the last minute – there has to be some proactivity. With the current unemployment rates for many people the fact that Finland is currently taking aroung 20’000 immigrants a year seems odd, but that’s just how it is. Either we choose not to accept immigration, or we choose to do so well ahead of the babyboomers’ shift from workforce to pensioners.

I’m still wondering what is the use to get people to immigrate when nobody is giving them a job once they do that…

I sort of remember how America sounded the alarm about not having enough labor force. Then the year 2000 crash happened….

Just wait for the economy to dip. Workers will be a dime-a-dozen here in Finland—and that includes knowledge workers.

The crucial difference between Europe, especially Finland, and the U.S is that the latter is barely aging compared to the former. There is absolutely no point comparing Finland and the U.S.

Todays newspaper had a small bit on Japan where the population is aging even more rapidly it seems.

Yes, and South Korea will over-take even Japan in a few decades, if the current trends continue. Both countries have immigration next to zero.

But in Japan women don’t go to work, in Finland they do. Japan is trying to get women to work by changing the pension system and givin women more maternity leave (yes..).

It’s sort of ironic that Poland is highlighted given the story over the summer about the polish journalist in Finland who was the only one in a group set around the EU who couldn’t find work – http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Polish+journalist+tests+employment+opportunities+in+Helsinki+-+and+finds+them+wanting/1135220364004

With the 20% unemployment in young Finnish males, the 50%+ unemployment of somalis, ~25-50% unemployment of non-EU immigrants, and the long-term unemployed around Finland you’d think they’d be doing something for those folks first, especially when lots of people do seem to come to Finland, but leave in 5 years or less for a variety of reasons but unemployment or lack of job/career opportunities once in a job seem to be a popular reason.

You do have to wonder if those people drawing up the policy are in touch with reality at all.

The last sentence, Hank. That’s what it’s all about. Who else wants more immigrants on the labour market (that do not have any Finnish language skills!!!)

Smaller employers (still the majority) are at the moment not hiring skilled foreign labour, even when they have a hard time finding new staff. To this day they rather employ a Finn who has lower qualifications, is lazy and kind of not functioning on monday mornings. These employers will not start to think all of a sudden that foreigners are the answer to their problems. Only when their business starts to decline because they do not have enouh employees, will they start hiring foreigners. And oly then they will start realising it’s actually not so bad to have them as colleagues…

But by that time it’s already too late for many.

http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Companies+more+willing+than+before+to+hire+immigrants/1135221734623

What we will see in the near future is more and more (joint) marketing efforts by large firms, employer organizations and the like, municipalities and the state. They will promise something extra, free schooling at least. What else? Lower taxes?

The problem is that, whatever is done, getting workforce to immigrate in large enough numbers won’t be easy; something like 130 000 new workers (plus their families) in ten years just won’t happen. In twenty years perhaps but that’s probably going to be too late.

Finland has two advantages, though:
-Russia with its low standard of living but relatively highly educated population right next to us.
-Finland is going to be the first country with a massive baby-boomers’ retirement problem. Hopefully other countries will thus start their respective efforts a couple of years later.

8. Smaller employers (still the majority) are at the moment not hiring skilled foreign labour, even when they have a hard time finding new staff.

My point exactly. The ministry should put these in “attitude training” first. Maybe even so that theres a project with some sort of support person who will explain the foreigner all the “Finnish things” as the employer won’t do it.

Finland is going to be the first country with a massive baby-boomers’ retirement problem.

The solution is easy: Tax ‘em! I’m serious! Well, not all of them, but through my work I’m getting to know lots of people who are (just) retired, or about to. In some cases they are so goddamn rich, own something like 3 houses, 6-7 mökkis (and hold on to them, even though they’re never used -not even by family), and still require that you do their gardining for €5,- per hour. I say Tax ‘em hard!

They could start by offering tax breaks and freebies to all those unemployed immigrants already here, right now.

Then, maybe we’d actually beleive that this country genuinely means to hire foreigners and that the whole recruitment campain won’t be about teaching people from China, Poland and Ukraine how to say “Kyllä, minä annan persettä ilmanteeksi ja maksan mielellääni veroja ilman vastineta” and about sending them back the day they found even cheaper labour in some banana republic.

They could also start by reforming the Immigration and the ulkomaalaispoliisi to each them some manners and some work methodology. Vahingoniloiset virkailijoiden kannattanee oppia, mikä kohtullinen käsittelyaika ja palveluhaluinen asenne tarkoittaa.

Hank – Given that the HS poll a few months back ( http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Immigration%20poll%20French-style%20rioting%20seen%20as%20unlikely%20in%20Finland/1101981878258 ) indicated that 76% of Finns feel that there are already enough or too many immigrants in Finland and another study showing that less than 10% of immigrants come to Finland only for work ( http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Fewer+than+10+of+immigrants+come+to+Finland+because+of+work/1135218322477 ) you have to figure that there is a very deep sense of denial of reality in the people who are writing this immigration policy.

It’s too late for ‘attitude training’ to have a major effect on the short-term need even if Finland does manage to get more immigrants to come and stay. It’s not just jobs, but people will have to be willing to rent/sell apartments to them, do business with them, even not hang up the phone on them when they call. To this day, I STILL have to have colleagues or my husband make phonecalls for me because I get hung up on repeatedly when I speak either my obviously non-native Finnish or English. The ministry should have started this shit years ago….a couple of years is too little, too late.

You’re correct hfb. And I also believe that whenever employers start hiring foreigners, it’s not because their attitudes have changed, it’s because it is in their own interest. But to stay positive, it could mark a change. Like I said earlier, once a company starts hiring foreigners it often notices that there is no problem and in fact sometimes even better then the previous situation (hiring unmotivated Finns in low skilled jobs). But we will only see if that’s for real when unemplyoment starts to go up again. Who will be out of a job first?

hfb: too late for attitude adjustment is precisely it and, to answer your question earlier in this thread, no, there is no single political party or government office in this country that is in touch with the reality or willing to do something about bettering the employment rate of immigrants already here.

Dig up the current Immigration Policy draft, for a good laugh. In a nutshell: “We seem to be having problems convincing the Poles and other Caucasian races to come here for more than seasonal work or than a one-off contract and we really don’t understand why. We submit that this ought to be resolved with a bigger marketing budget.”

LOL …or not.

I’m involved in two political parties’ immigration policy workgroups. In both cases, our recommendations to focus on attitude training with the locals to immediately start improving the overal integration and employablity rate of immigrants already here, as a rehearsal for the day when this country’s labour needs will reach a critical level where Finland will no longer be able to afford appearing even remotely hostile towards immigration, simply did not make it to either party’s final memoir to the Ministry of Labour’s Immigration Policy workgroup. Instead, both parties dumbly supported the Ministry of Labour’s original draft’s position to focus on marketing Finland to cheap labour from China, India and the former USSR. Both parties also supported the idea of making foreign labour’s legal standing one of permanent temporary. In other words, foreign labour will be considered as throw-away workforce that gleefully comes when you invite it and obediantly goes back when you decide it’s over. It also implies being less than second-class citizens, with barely any rights and definitely not their taxmoney’s worth. they would also never ever qualify for citizenship. My Webster has three words for this: disenfranchisement, exploitation, slavery.

Helsinki, Finland 21 Feb 2007 – The University of Helsinki and its sub-division the
Swedish School of Social Sciences might seem like a bizarre place for
scientific scandal to brew. But a hiring decision issued last year by the
president of the little college which educates both journalists and social
scientists has now come under increasing scrutiny. The decision on whom to
hire is not the object of attention in this growing scandal which has a
Jewish connection.

What Finnish authorities are currently investigating are expert statements
offered by University of Helsinki professors during the hiring process in
which they assured the Review Committee that a Jewish applicant of
international repute had never been admitted to the University of Helsinki
as a post-graduate student, an allegation which has categorically been proven
false.

Another statement claimed to evaluate earlier work by the Jewish applicant
with the author claiming to have knowledge of the applicant’s earlier
scholarship applications. However, further scrutiny revealed that the
professor who wrote the statement cannot reasonably or legally have had any
knowledge of this information.

At present, the University of Helsinki has few if any measures to avoid or
detect fraudulent statements made by their faculty or to uncover other
irregularities in the appointment process. However, University of Helsinki
authorities are expected to further investigate the issue and present the
case to the University of Helsinki President’s office for review within three
months.

Because of the serious nature of the statements and the fact that the
college has rejected his candidature four times previously, the applicant has
requested that the university review the records of previous decisions for
irregularities and that the University of Helsinki in the present case take
disciplinary action against the two professors and investigate whether
there are indications of ethnic or other forms of discrimination.

http://www.sockom.helsinki.fi