The naive will never see.
@ 4:37 am A major moron in Finland’s National Defense College becomes the first one to opine on behalf of Finland on the recently submitted Israeli explanation on the airstrike on the UN observation post, where one Finnish soldier died:
http://virtual.finland.fi/stt/showarticle.asp?intNWSAID=13742&group=General
“Major Torsti Sirén of Finland’s National Defence College told the Finnish News Agency (STT) on Friday he regarded Israel’s account of the airstrike on a UN observation post with suspicion.
[…]
“Surely the original map had the UN positions marked. If not, their attitude towards UN observers is rather disrespectful and negligent.â€Â
Is this guy for real? Are there no news outlets available at the Finnish National Defense College? Does he get all his news from Finnish sources only? Has he no idea of how corrupt the United Nations is, and how it openly allowed Hezbollah to co-opt UN observes as human shields for Hezbollah’s terror activities? And, finally, has he no idea that Israel has absolutely no reason to respect UN observers, given the open bias the UN has shown against Israel over the years?
Granted, the major is just a cog in the wheel of a naïve welfare state acting on its ideologies. Yet it still seems puzzling that Finland, with all its pretensions regarding humanitarian values, winds up eagerly supporting an organization like the UN whose majority membership do their utmost to work against those very values. Two-thirds of the General Assembly are non-democratic nations, yet Finland’s official policy seems to follow the notion that these nations are morally equivalent to those which are democratic.
It would be interesting what the major would have to say about training Finnish officers for UN duty. Perhaps they offer courses in bribery, prostitution, and child molestation there, in order to fall in line with UN practices and values.
Haah!
Welfare state again! You’re running out of your credibility.
American calling the UN corrupted gave me just the best laugh of all weekend. Certainly it is corrupted, as the US isn’t paying enough for the organization.
Secondly: So you think that what this Major says publicly should be all he thinks and knows? Even if he would find UN corrupted -as you do- it would mean the end to his career to say that out loud.
Comment by Boyle — Sun, Sep 17th, 2006 @ 5:27 am
Ah UN duty.
When Clinton wanted some USA troops to put those blue hats on??
Well the military said no. He backed off, or he would have had a very hard thing to tell the US public.
Reason: No goals, no rules of engagement, except do nothing. One wonders why any troop would ever go.
Comment by winter — Sun, Sep 17th, 2006 @ 5:54 am
The quote
“Surely the original map had the UN positions marked. If not, their attitude towards UN observers is rather disrespectful and negligent”
tells us that Finland was in full knowledge of how badly the mission had been run by the UN, and should have been the wake up call to get out.
Comment by winter — Sun, Sep 17th, 2006 @ 6:00 am
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clueless
Comment by gwb — Sun, Sep 17th, 2006 @ 7:17 am
It is bit strange to see this antipathy towards the UN – an organization not much more than the sum of its parts. Yes, it does its work badly, but that is because its members control it absolutely and won’t allow internal interferance in favour of liberty and democracy. This is the fervent position of the US also, the Congress is at this very moment debating whether to scrap the Geneva Convention, because anything the US does is moral and anything its enemies do is immoral even if it is the same acts we are talking about. Talk about moral relativism.
So, UN is inefficient – and it simply can’t be reformed intelligently with ALL the leading powers opposing any really meaningful record. Should we abolish it? The US fundamentalists thumbing their Book of Revelations surely think so, did you not know that the US is “the Beast”, and will be a central agency bringing about the Armageddon. Talk about derangement. Anyway, it certainly is not much but it is doing much valuable grass roots work, it is first baby step towards a better global system. Just because it is a tiny step forwards we should not take that step back.
Comment by mjr — Sun, Sep 17th, 2006 @ 9:51 am
Reform, not “record” – in any case I suppose any rational argument is useless here with these current fanatism raging in the US.
Comment by mjr — Sun, Sep 17th, 2006 @ 9:53 am
I don’t understand what the UN-welfare state-rant has to do with what major Sirén said. Israel claims that its bombing of the UN outpost was an accident, caused by poor maps. However, the reason for the accident sounds like a poor excuse – and not even particularly original at that. The outpost in question has existed for a long time, it was clearly marked and located in a visible location. Major Sirén is absolutely correct in suspecting the official report – there’s no point in accusing him of some ambiguous anti-Israel bias for simply analyzing the facts.
Also, the bit about the training of Finnish soldiers was simply childish. Less emotional crap, more facts, please.
Comment by ambl — Sun, Sep 17th, 2006 @ 10:37 am
So if I understood the opening rambling correctly, Finnpundit here essentially seems to agree with the conclusions drawn by Maj. Sirén – the only difference being that he actually applauds the attack.
Comment by Kimmo W. — Sun, Sep 17th, 2006 @ 10:41 am
“Perhaps they offer courses in bribery, prostitution…”
No naive welfarestate would do that. The Finnish troops in Afghanistan just sent their interpreter back in milk train for criminal investigation on bribery. I guess he failed the course.
When Israel hit that UN post, there was some made in U.S. jesusing around in style “four child molesters less”. It’s somewhat amusing to read such commentary at the same time, while some of their own are facing charges for rape and murder in Iraq. Would it be appropriate to have same similar comments on every U.S coffin returning from there.
Comment by Antti (the redneck one) — Sun, Sep 17th, 2006 @ 11:13 am
UN troops don’t seem that corrupted once you recall the pics of Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq. Especially the one where “holy methodist-warrior”, US-soldier had made iraqi prisoner walk like a dog, naked and strapped.
Comment by Boyle — Sun, Sep 17th, 2006 @ 11:47 am
I think the comments by the Major are absolutely correct and spot on. It is impossible to believe that Israel’s defence forces did not know of the locations of UN sites. They managed to get intelligence on the whereabouts of Hezbollah targets in south Beirut which, I should imagine, are not made public by Hezbollah in contrast to UN post locations.
Of course the UN is against Israel’s occupation, as it is of other illegal occupations (e.g. northern Cyprus). It is Israel that does not respect international law by illegally occupying foreign territory. Israel should immeadiately comply with UN resolutions, then perhaps Israel would get more respect on the world stage.
At the same time, of course, it is unacceptable for terrorist groups to be tolerated. But, it is perhaps even more unacceptable for a democratic government that should no better (and indeed set a better example) to take the kind of irresponsible, counter productive and totally disproportionate action that the Israeli government took against the whole of Lebanon and its people.
Comment by JG — Sun, Sep 17th, 2006 @ 12:40 pm
Phil, you need to watch this: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6604775898578139565
Comment by Observer — Sun, Sep 17th, 2006 @ 12:41 pm
Where’s Phil? This guy is boring me with his personal rants.
Comment by Frustrated Finn — Sun, Sep 17th, 2006 @ 2:00 pm
#12
Thanks for the link.
There are more jews in Chicago than in Jerusalem.
Comment by Boyle — Sun, Sep 17th, 2006 @ 2:43 pm
That was an interesting documentary.
Comment by Jani Kuusisto — Sun, Sep 17th, 2006 @ 3:01 pm
Yawn…
I love all the no-responsibility-for-our-actions chicken shits pointing fingers at the UN.
The bombing of the UN position would have never happened if Israel wasn’t acting like the world’s second biggest asshole (US being #1) and bombed Lebanon back into the middle ages.
Oh and before some dipshit spouts the stupid “But Hez. kidnapped two soldiers” argument, it’s plain to see that the only reason why Hez. did that in the first place is because Israel was acting like the world’s second biggest asshole.
See history for details. (You know, the thing many Americans and Israelis haven’t got clue about.)
Comment by gopha — Sun, Sep 17th, 2006 @ 4:23 pm
Finpundit is an antifinite!
Comment by Hank W. — Sun, Sep 17th, 2006 @ 4:24 pm
he’s an antifinite for sure
Comment by Blah — Sun, Sep 17th, 2006 @ 4:34 pm
So if I understood the opening rambling correctly, Finnpundit here essentially seems to agree with the conclusions drawn by Maj. Sirén – the only difference being that he actually applauds the attack.
In the approximate words of Homer Simpson:
“I’ve sustained so many blows to the head that consistency is something that…um…uh… [to Lisa] I love you, Bart…”
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Sun, Sep 17th, 2006 @ 6:13 pm
Conservatives use oil-for-food to hammer U.N., ignore facts
Conservative media figures are engaged in an aggressive campaign to use the scandal surrounding the United Nations oil-for-food program to discredit the United Nations as a whole. The attacks focus on Saddam Hussein’s manipulation of oil-for-food to obtain illegal revenue, which he used to prop up his ailing regime.
http://mediamatters.org/items/200412070005
Comment by Ergotelina — Sun, Sep 17th, 2006 @ 6:27 pm
Oh, I can’t wait Phil getting back.
I seldom see such poopoo as finnpundit’s post is.
Comment by Vesh — Sun, Sep 17th, 2006 @ 7:38 pm
Meanwhile in Iraq:
“Iraqi officials plan to dig a series of trenches around Baghdad in the coming weeks to seal it off and control movement into and out of the city, The New York Times reported on Saturday.
“We’re going to build a trench around Baghdad” — a distance measuring about 60 miles (97 km) — “so we can control the exits and entrances so people will be searched properly,” Brig.-Gen. Abdul Karim Khalaf told the Times on Friday in an interview.”
I just wonder whether Halliburton also makes trebuchets..?
Meanwhile in Afganistan:
“The Senlis Council is an international policy think tank with offices in Kabul, London, Paris and Brussels….The Senlis report also states that “A humanitarian crisis of starvation and poverty has gripped the south of the country,” and blames “The U.S. and UK-led failed counter-narcotics and military policies” for this situation.
Opium production in Afghanistan has increased 60% this year. A record crop of 6,100 tons of opium was harvested this year, amounting to 610 tons of heroin. This amount overtops global demand for heroin by a full third.”
Wow, OVERTOPPING global demand for heroin…Americans surely are showing us how to spread democracy.
Comment by tim73 — Sun, Sep 17th, 2006 @ 7:48 pm
“Wow, OVERTOPPING global demand for heroin…Americans surely are showing us how to spread democracy.”
Maybe this is a cunning tactic on the part of the US-led “war on drugs” – put the illegal drug business out of business by inducing a heroin glut on the market, leading to plummeting prices on the street!
Comment by Kimmo W. — Sun, Sep 17th, 2006 @ 9:50 pm
“OVERTOPPING global demand for heroin” lets blame the evil USA. I mean they need to get in there and kill those poor farmers.
And
Meanwhile in Iraq:
Did the “invasion and its aftermath” destabilize the region from those leaders’ perspective?
Absolutely yes! The Syrian Baath regime lost its eastern twin, Iran lost its anti-American, anti-Semitic western neighbor and the family-state in Saudi Arabia suddenly found itslef with a northern neighbor where minorities and majorities both have shares in governance.
Moreover, the peoples of the region, since then, became more daring in demanding their rights and criticizing the policy of their governments.
If this is not instability, then what is it? Damm the USA and any thoughts of democracy!!!!!!
Comment by winter — Sun, Sep 17th, 2006 @ 10:28 pm
gopha and JG
Lets set the bar on Israel. Just what action would YOU let them do when attacked, and soldgers are killed/kidnapped?
Come on guys, what would Finland do If attacked by (insert little country here) and you had 2 dead, 2 missing?
Comment by winter — Sun, Sep 17th, 2006 @ 10:32 pm
Finnpundit himself wrote earlier that killing UN personnel was right thing to do. Israelis succeeded in doing that. Major Torsti said that they did. So where’s the problem?
Comment by jormanen — Sun, Sep 17th, 2006 @ 10:32 pm
Winter, didn’t you watch that video on post #20? Israel is attacking, not defending.
Comment by Jani Kuusisto — Sun, Sep 17th, 2006 @ 11:07 pm
“Come on guys, what would Finland do If attacked by (insert little country here) and you had 2 dead, 2 missing?”
Well, if the armed wing of the swedish social democrat party had two of our guys…If the russians supplied us piles after piles of their best toys and the whole nation believes Ukko, the god of thunder had handpicked us to bring Kalevala to the peoples of earth and general Lyytinen in a fit of a high-tech armed potency high would bomb scheisse out of Stockholm, I would say, we would do the same thing.
But as that is not the case, we would just send a ferryload of finnjävels to Stockholm and threaten to send a new one every our before our guys are released.
Comment by Antti (the redneck one) — Sun, Sep 17th, 2006 @ 11:20 pm
“Israel is attacking, not defending.” after it was attacked.
So, just what is the measured response you would allow?
Lets set the bar here guys, you are all evading the question. Why, because an answer would showcase your hypocrisy? (Its Ok for Finland to defend, just not Israel)
Comment by winter — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 12:29 am
Winter, Israel has the right to defend itself. However it does not have the right to destroy civilian targets and infrastructure of an entire country (which was not the attacker) to do so. It’s illegal.
Comment by sensor — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 12:50 am
Maybe this is a cunning tactic on the part of the US-led “war on drugs†– put the illegal drug business out of business by inducing a heroin glut on the market, leading to plummeting prices on the street!
Sure, it’s supply-side economics. By the way, I’m expecting a good year for Jazz
Comment by Kristian (in Espoo) — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 1:22 am
Jani Kuusisto:
“Israel is attacking, not defending.”
So when an enemy army enters your territory, kills your soldiers and kidnaps your soldiers it’s not an act of war and the attempt to retrieve those soldiers and prevent the enemy from killing/capturing any more soldiers is not about defending your country?
Comment by Mikko Sandt — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 1:35 am
Remind me, why does Phil let this clown write in his blog?
Comment by maissi — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 2:00 am
Remind me, why does Phil let this clown write in his blog?
to counter my asininity
Comment by Hank W. — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 2:10 am
“However it does not have the right to destroy civilian targets and infrastructure of an entire country”
So what is the bar here? We can defend, but go acroos the boarder, and it is a war crime if we cross?
Please, what is your threshold? So far you have just proven your hypocrisy over and over?
Comment by winter — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 2:49 am
Winter:
You’re the only one acting hypocritical here. Watch the video linked above to learn some facts. Israel is occupying foreign land (Palestine), destroying infrastructure of foreign land (Palestine), killing people in the name of defense-again in foreign land (Palestine). The threshold: Israel is OCCUPYING not defending.
Geez, is Winter and Finnpundit one and the same person?
Comment by Boyle — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 2:58 am
Not surprisingly, this thread brought out the standard Finnish Kommie Klutz Kidz, though sprinkled with several seemingly nationalists and conservatives who would still support Finland whether Finland practices welfare-statist exploitation or not. The commies are the standard troll quotient; the nationalists are the anomaly.
But perhaps this comment is the most worthwhile one to address:
7. ambl: Major Sirén is absolutely correct in suspecting the official report – there’s no point in accusing him of some ambiguous anti-Israel bias for simply analyzing the facts.
Now, even I suspect that the official Israeli report might overlook Israeli attitudes against willful UN human shields. As the UN did not put into action any evacuation plans for the observes, then it follows that they became legitimate targets, as they protected the enemy. Yet what’s so interesting of the Major is that he ignores the basis for Israel’s attitudes. Granted, the Finnish journalists interviewing him were fishing for anti-Israeli comments from an authority like him, so his statement might actually be an ironic statement. That is certainly one way to explain the naivete of saying that Israeli attitudes towards UN observers is “rather disrespectful and negligentâ€Â. Maybe this is a case of a career army officer employing classic Finnish understatement that masquerades as a critique of Finnish UN policy. Then, kudos to him.
Yet if it isn’t, then it does imply that Finnish naivete regarding the UN has spread, to an alarming degree, even to the Finnish National Defense College. It does not make sense that a nation that saw the folly of putting faith in the League of Nations in 1939 would today have such historically clueless attitudes in its defense academia, – and the League of Nations was far more principled an institution than the UN.
An additional point that this incident brings up is the question of how much is the Finnish public shielded from the realities of corruption in the UN. The corruption is endemic to the UN, made all the more so because of the fact that two-thirds of the member states are undemocratic states. That Finland supports the UN, and turns a blind eye towards the corruption, basically translates as de facto endorsement of the corruption.
Holding on to the concept that the UN can be made into a workable international institution was tenuous at best during the Cold War: almost every major successful peace initiative was negotiated outside the purview of the UN back then, as it is today. So the UN as an instrument for world peace is simply very much unproved. Arguments supporting the UN in the name of “peace†are puerile, at best.
The real reason, of course, is that the UN strengthens statist ideologies (as opposed to, let say, globalist ideals based on free trade). For those who advocate welfare-statism in particular, the UN becomes a political vehicle to advance their world view, regardless of the fact that it works against democratic initiatives within states in the developing world, whose best chance of achieving democracy come from globalization, not the UN.
If the UN is understood as a supranational welfare-statist vehicle, we can see why socialist ideologues like Tarja Halonen and Erkki Tuomioja support the UN. Yet it does not explain why right-wing, pro-business conservatives in Finland (and, let’s face it, most career armed forces officers tend to at least be a bit conservative) subscribe to the notion that the UN is a worthwhile institution to support. Suffice it to say that the welfare-statist ideology has penetrated all levels of Finnish society to such a degree that objective thinking becomes all the more difficult in Finland.
Comment by Finnpundit — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 3:42 am
“Israel is OCCUPYING”
but wait, Finland is occupying Russian land. I bet I can find some Russians to say so.
Now get out!!!!!
What a lame excuse to go and kill your neighbor. One can go anywhere and find….. Someone is OCCUPYING my LAND excuse to kill my neighbor.
Get off that one. We can find to many examples of Occupying my land.
Comment by winter — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 4:47 am
Dear phil,
i used to read your blog in the past, but i’m stopping now. i was interested in the beginning because i thought that here may be an american with some interesting ideas. however, i have slowly come to realize that an american is an american through and through. bush should be proud of his cnn quoting fox news bullshit believing minion. congratulations phil, uve stepped right off the assembly line, and r now free to spew the horseshit about foreign countries that u have been so tirelessly ingrained with. another shiny cowboy american straight off the production line.
goodbye
ps. read ‘fateful triangle’, by noam chomsky if you are in any way interested in getting a clue urself, and perhaps understanding why the rest of the world hates you and your country.
Comment by ths — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 4:50 am
Oh no, we have lose someone with hard questions.
Thus from now on, I will
1) Bash Israel
2) love the UN
3) Love Government
4) hate the USA
5) Waive the French white flag of surrender
all so I can bond with the EU and be EU Politically Correct.
Comment by winter — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 5:29 am
#38
You are denying Palestine, typical republicanism.
Europe has made one mistake in its past: sending all the cuckoos and losers to the new world instead of mixing them with the intellectual aristocrats. They never assumed that the cuckoos would breed like rats and build a society that gradually rottens the whole globe.
Occupation of the USA – failed.
Finland occupying Russian land? Where? In Sweden?
Comment by Boyle — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 6:18 am
No one’s got the moral upper hand when it comes to politics. American soldiers dealt a fatal blow to any semblance of moral credibility when they tortured at Abu Ghraib; that George Bush supports and advocates torture of detained prisoners angers me deeply. Many Americans – conservative and liberal alike – are rallying against the Bush administration these days. Check out Colin Powell and John McCain, for starters. The mercury’s rising.
But the UN’s got its panties in an existential wad, too. Child molesting charges against “peacekeeping” forces, food-for-oil scandals, an entity whose indecision and inertia masks denial — it’s no better for you. We’re all culpable.
The point is that democracies f**ck up. Our saving grace is our ability to self-diagnose and self-correct. But I fear that open-mindedness, true open-mindedness, is a lost art these days. Most people have already made up their minds and just want to read people who confirm their opinions. I make it a point to read right wing and left wing sites. Even Finnpundit, even commondreams.org, even andrew sullivan and Rush Limbaugh. Go read them all, and think, and stop hating Americans or Finns just because someone’s opinion pisses you off.
Comment by AmeriikanEnkeli — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 8:47 am
“So when an enemy army enters your territory, kills your soldiers and kidnaps your soldiers it’s not an act of war and the attempt to retrieve those soldiers and prevent the enemy from killing/capturing any more soldiers is not about defending your country?”
Let’s see. Defending your country against a foreign military in your own territory, against soldiers who are killing civilians, destroying houses and building houses for their citizens on occupied territory. This is called terrorism. Actions of the occupying force are called defending. Let’s all shout and defy logic!
Comment by Jani Kuusisto — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 8:54 am
Finnpundit: “Now, even I suspect that the official Israeli report might overlook Israeli attitudes against willful UN human shields.”
So basically you’re admitting that the Israelis are probably lying and actually did deliberately aim at the UN post. Boy, with friends like you, Israel really doesn’t need enemies!
“Yet what’s so interesting of the Major is that he ignores the basis for Israel’s attitudes.”
Sirén is a military expert, and he was asked his professional opinion about whether or not Israel’s response was credible, and he gave his answer, based on his expertise. What was he supposed to say? “OK, they probably killed our guy on purpose, but they’ve had a bad time, so you can’t blame them for letting off a little steam.”
To make an analogy, forensic pathologists are asked to determine the cause of death of someone, and if foul play was involved – not to psychoanalyse the possible killer or commiserate over his unhappy childhood.
Speculating on the motives the pilot, or those of his embattled nation, was simply not part of Sirén’s job. Calling him a “moron” for giving a professional opinion without showing a pro-Isareli bias is moronic indeed.
Comment by Kimmo W. — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 10:06 am
the USA is known to have supported “democratic” regimes. Saddam Hussein’s Irak for one, such nice bedfellows back in the 1980’s. And how about Saudi Arabia? A model state of modern democray. Oh yeah, they got oil, so they can’t be called evil now can they…
Comment by Hank W. — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 10:17 am
The observer was a professional solder who knew the risks being in the warzone. In chaotic situations accidents do indeed happen. But it fits perfectly well in the Halonen-Tuomioja doctrine not to accept apologies and to do more anti-Israel politics.
Comment by angry finnish male — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 10:20 am
“But it fits perfectly well in the Halonen-Tuomioja doctrine not to accept apologies and to do more anti-Israel politics.”
Have I missed something? I haven’t noticed either the President or the Foreign Minister going overboard in any anti-Israeli rants about this. But maybe I’m not so good at hearing the voices inside AFM’s head.
Comment by Kimmo W. — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 10:24 am
I’m not going to ponder whether FinnPundit is a simple minded biggot or if he simply wants to raise discussion by posting stuff that’s nothing short of a troll.
But Phil, posts like this are really discrediting your blog.
Comment by Aaron — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 10:42 am
@Jormanen,
yes, Finnpundit does want it both ways. He revelled in the death of the four peacekeepers (especially the Finnish one) AND he praised the Israelis for their act, but he also wants to deny they did it. See Orwell’s ‘1984′ for an explanation of how doublethink works. The guy is pathological.
@Ameriikan Enkeli,
I’m not going to start reading garbage. In order to remind myself of large reservoirs of sanity present in the US, I’ll read sane people, not cretins and loonies. I try to avoid them, regardless of their nationality.
Comment by prince of dorkness — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 10:49 am
Winter: “Thus from now on, I will
1) Bash Israel
2) love the UN
3) Love Government
4) hate the USA
5) Waive the French white flag of surrender”
Do, please waive that French white flag of surrender that you keep bringing out in the most convoluted contexts. But before you do, please look up the “waive” in the dictionary, so you’ll know exactly what to do.
Comment by Kimmo W. — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 11:46 am
11″
Israel’s presence in the disputed territories is not illegal, as UNSC attested to, in its UNSCR 242 being a “chapter 6″ resolution instead of chapter 7. A chapter 6 resolution advises negotiations as the way to solve the conflict, and that means ALL parties involved, NOT JUST Israel.
The Kashmir territory between India and Pakistan belongs to the same class of dispute as in the WB and Gaza. To caste Israel’s presence the WB as illegal, is to ignore their role as “high contracting power” as defined by the UN’s own charter.
Comment by KGS59 — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 11:47 am
I don’t understand what the UN-welfare state-rant has to do with what major Sirén said.
Original thinkers like FinnPundit know that everything has to do with the welfare state. Why is Finnish foreign policy like it is? Because of the welfare state. Why does a military officer criticise a military operation? Due to the welfare state. Why did the Finnish national badminton squad lose to Sweden? Corrupting influence of the welfare state. Why does FinnPundit not have enough blueberries to make a blueberry pie? He’s oppressed by the welfare state. IT’S ALL RELATED, PEOPLE. WAKE UP.
PS: When is Phil coming back?
Comment by a lamb with no guiding light — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 12:07 pm
“Why did the Finnish national badminton squad lose to Sweden? Corrupting influence of the welfare state.”
Surely the Finns should beat the Swedes at Badminton because the Swedes are even more corrupted by their welfare state?
Comment by Toby — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 12:55 pm
Finnpundit made few comments on earlier posts that sounded sane. I thought maybe he had cleaned his act and was going to comment on it, and now this…
Good thing I didnt say anything, then.
Phil has a good blog, and a sense of humour, I wager. This is the only reason why he has Finnpundit blogging here. For comic value.
Comment by iJusten — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 12:57 pm
Observer wrote (in post 12):
“Phil, you need to watch this: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6604775898578139565 ”
Thank you for the link. That documentary was an eye opening experience.
Comment by Åboy — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 1:27 pm
“Has he no idea of how corrupt the United Nations is”
Yep. The american conspiracies forever. If it’s not the U.S. government, it’s the UN. Conspiracies, conspiracies, conspiracies, brainwashing, braingwashing, brainwashing.
Comment by Anonymous — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 2:42 pm
“Is this guy for real?”
Funny, most of the times when I read your blog, Phil, I ask that same question about you. Are you just a troll, or is it possible that an adult human being is so totally brainwashed by the U.S. docilization and brainwashing school system (http://www.thememoryhole.org/edu/school-mission.htm) to the point that you’re totally politically illiterate and uncabable of making rational logical conclusions from clear facts? I’m starting to belive that it’s actually true, and you really are an adult with a 4-year-old’s wit.
Comment by Anonymous — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 2:46 pm
12# and 55#
The first dead give away of the credibility problem with the video, is in the very beginning. “In 1967 UNSCR 242 demanded Israel to withdraw from “the ” territories”.
The only acceptable version of that resolution (242) is the english version in which it was officially drafted. There is absolutely no “THE” in the offical draft. It read:
(i) Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict;
(ii) Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgement of the
sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right
to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force;
http://www.geocities.com/a_i_l_i_info/Anti-Semitism-Rostow.html?1113893460103
“For twenty-four years Arab states have pretended that the two resolutions are “ambiguous” and can be interpreted to suit their desires. And some European, Soviet and even American officials have cynically allowed Arab spokesman to delude themselves and their people–to say nothing of Western public opinion–about what the resolutions mean. It is common even for American journalists to write that Resolution 242 is “deliberately ambiguous,” as though the parties are equally free to rely on their own reading of its key provisions.
Nothing could be further from the truth. Resolution 242, which as undersecretary of state for political affairs between 1966 and 1969 I helped produce, calls on the parties to make peace and allows Israel to administer the territories it occupied in 1967 until “a just and lasting peace in the Middle East” is achieved. When such a peace is made, Israel is required to withdraw its armed forces “from territories” it occupied during the Six-Day War–not from “the” territories nor from “all” the territories, but from some of the territories, which included the Sinai Desert, the West Bank, the Golan Heights, East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip.”
[Eugene W. Rostow, U. S. Undersecretary of State for political affairs between 1966 and 1969, played a leading role in producing Resolution 242]
Comment by KGS59 — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 2:50 pm
#55
Really Åboy?
I could see how it would be an eye-opener for Americans, but this type of information is quite common in most of the world.
What everyone should know is that America’s ‘news filtering’, as described in the video, acheives its intended effect. I’ve never seen pro-Palestinian news on US channels—nor have I seen pro-peace news. It’s always been about the faux-Israel/US-sponsored peace. Then, naturally, they’d report on how Palestinians reacted angrily. But, they’d never report about why Palestinians rejected the ‘offers.’
It can only lead me to believe that the American population is too stupid to understand the details (therefore news programs omit them for ratings sake) or there’s a filtering. Perhaps it’s a convenient combination of both.
I hope the new PA leader is a better spokesman than Arafat. His words might not filter-through to the American sheeple, but he might help to educate the rest-of-the-world even more.
Comment by Kristian (in Espoo) — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 2:54 pm
#59
By the way, the Israel that American sheeple so readily support, is……..yes, you guessed it: A Welfare State
Free health, Free dental care, Free education, etc. All the things Americans don’t even have for themselves HA! HA! HA! HA!
Comment by Kristian (in Espoo) — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 2:59 pm
“yes, Finnpundit does want it both ways. He revelled in the death of the four peacekeepers (especially the Finnish one) AND he praised the Israelis for their act, but he also wants to deny they did it. See Orwell’s ‘1984′ for an explanation of how doublethink works. The guy is pathological.”
From the psychologist’s point of view, Finnpundit is clearly demonstraing the signs that are typical to persons with the antisocial personality disorder (F60.2/301.7), better known as psychopathy/sociopathy.
Finnpundit, if you read this, I recommend you to seek professional psychological help. Your strong irrability, obvious aggressiveness, limited emotional scale, blatant lack of empathy for the suffering of others, deceitfulness and twisting the facts, constant double standards and consistent irresponsibility are typical symptoms of the sociopathical personality disorder and fullfill the diagnostic criteria.
Comment by Anonymous — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 2:59 pm
“By the way, the Israel that American sheeple so readily support, is……..yes, you guessed it: A Welfare State
Free health, Free dental care, Free education, etc. All the things Americans don’t even have for themselves HA! HA! HA! HA!”
The funny thing is that virtually every civilized country on Earth is
a welfare state. The sole exceptions are hell holes like the U.S. and war-ridden third world countries.
Comment by Anonymous — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 3:02 pm
#60
Yes Americans, with billions of your tax dollars per-year
Disclaimer: No offence intended to those Americans who oppose it. I’d be as pissed as you are.
Comment by Kristian (in Espoo) — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 3:02 pm
“From the psychologist’s point of view, Finnpundit is clearly demonstraing the signs that are typical to persons with the antisocial personality disorder (F60.2/301.7), better known as psychopathy/sociopathy.”
The downside of the Internet is the fact that in addition to responsible users, all sorts of hate groups, racists, people with sociopathical disorders etc. can try to use it for alleviating their insecurity and ill-being by publishing their mindless drivel.
Comment by Anonymous — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 3:26 pm
That factually challenged video uses canards of “Jews “controlling the mass media”, “Jews controlling governments”, “Jewish cruelty”, “Jewish indifference to suffering of others”,.. that to call it anti-Semitical would be an understatement.
Sweeping charges of “illegality” concerning its presence in the disputed territories, as well as the housing issue where Arabs (the ones who don’t actually bother with permits, thousands of other do)is so far off the mark, that it’s rediculous.
Noting that Fisk, Lerner, Chomsky, Ashwrari and other “illuminaries” are seen lying without blinking,,,,its no wonder the US turns such nonsense a deaf ear.
Comment by KGS59 — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 3:34 pm
While not having read every single article ever written in finland for thought, I’m betting this one may be the all-time biggest let-down. I hope Phil’s coming back soon.
Comment by Olli — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 3:49 pm
to call it anti-Semitical would be an understatement.
A bunch of anti-Semite Semites indeed. Well, Fisk isn’t a Jew as far as I know, but a brilliant reporter nevertheless.
But why was that one Israeli soldier beating a Palestinian with a rock? Isn’t Uzi heavy enough? And kickin in the face with a boot seemed to work pretty well too in another scene.
Comment by Anonymous — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 3:59 pm
You don’t have to be a non-Jew to anti-Semitic either. The picture of Palestinians lynching to Israeli soldiers in a Ramallah police station, then showing their bloody hands out the window is I believe more graphic of the two.
Comment by KGS59 — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 4:10 pm
Fisk is intelligent, but more a propagandist than a reporter. That Osam Bin-Laden can vouch for his “impartiality” does little to bloster his (Fisk’s)credibility.
The Helsinki Sanomat published a Fisk op-ed on Jan 5 2005, “USA’s Media Should Not Whitewash the Middle East Horrors,†that contained gross inaccuracies and distortions about American media coverage of Israel and the Palestinians.
Fisk:
I can remember the moment around two years ago when the word “settlements†was replaced by “Jewish neighborhoodsâ€Ââ€â€or even in some cases, “outposts.â€Â
According to CAMERA:
It is absolute fabrication on Fisk’s part to claim that in the American media the word “settlements†has been “replaced by Jewish neighborhoods.†In the Los Angeles Times, the major American media outlet which first printed Fisk’s Op-Ed (Dec. 27), a news article by Jerusalem bureau chief Laura King that very same day disproved Fisk’s claim. Her article was filled with references to “the largest Jewish settlement blocks in the West Bank,†“Jewish settlement activity,†and “228 new settlement homes in the settlements of Beitar Illit and Efrat.â€Â
The paper’s news pages referred to “settlements†in four other news articles in December. And the term “Jewish neighborhoods,†which Fisk contends replaced “settlements†appears in exactly zero articles in the same time period. The same pattern applies in the overwhelming majority of American media.”
So much for Fisk’s brilliant reporting.
Comment by KGS59 — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 4:29 pm
FinnPundit is absolutely and brutally right. UN was there and went again to protect Hez terrorists. The blue helmets were human shields for Hez. Major (moron) Torsti Sirén is echoing the politically correct Finnish socialist mantra that only naïve can see as true. However, that political correctness opens many doors even in military.
Comment by alo — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 5:10 pm
“The picture of Palestinians lynching to Israeli soldiers in a Ramallah police station, then showing their bloody hands out the window is I believe more graphic of the two.”
Neither side in this conflict has any shortage of examples of brutality inflicted by the other side to justify their own atrocities.
Comment by Kimmo W. — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 5:38 pm
“hell holes like the U.S.”
yes we are such a hell hole, nobody wants to come here, and everyone is leaving???? But then again I am not EU Politically correct again.
To bad I have an extra 10,000 to spend at Walmart that a common Finn does not have. Having to feed 4 cars, 2 boats, with gas is the EU version of a Hell Hole to live in.
Comment by winter — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 5:46 pm
wow extra 10 000 to spend in a Walmart, man you truly are living the good life winter
Comment by Blah — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 5:58 pm
If Finns had extra 10 000, they would spend it at ALKO – Finnish government owned bottle shop i.e. liquor store.
Comment by alo — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 6:17 pm
Yep, the one who dies with the most toys wins.
Comment by Antti (the redneck one) — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 6:23 pm
71#
The difference being, while individual soldiers have on occasion opted to use brute force in their dealings with Palestinians, the Israeli gov’t has not ever accepted a policy of indiscrimiante force to be used on the Palestinian civilian population. The Israeli people would never allow for it.
The Palestinians on the other hand, have used exactly that method of targeting civilians, then hiding amongst it with their armed men and munitions and weapons making shops. That is something the Palestinian people have allowed for over a decade already.
While one side investigates atrocities, the other side incites its population for it. Big difference.
Comment by KGS59 — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 6:38 pm
10 000 dollars (?) winter.
Wow, aren’t you a lucky one! With that amount of cash you’re able to buy pure Israeli cherry tomatoes and oranges for the rest of the year. Go nuts, will ya.
Comment by Boyle — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 6:42 pm
“the Israeli gov’t has not ever accepted a policy of indiscrimiante force to be used on the Palestinian civilian population…”
So what do you call demolishing people’s houses if a relative of theirs has thrown rocks at the tanks of the occupiers?
Comment by Kimmo W. — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 7:04 pm
“thrown rocks at the tanks ”
sounds like one should not throw rocks to me. Good policy.
Comment by winter — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 7:28 pm
“sounds like one should not throw rocks to me. Good policy.”
And then they wonder why the Palestinians are so pissed off about decades of economic deprivation and humiliation!
Comment by Kimmo W. — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 7:31 pm
If Finns had extra 10 000, they would spend it at ALKO – Finnish government owned bottle shop i.e. liquor store.
Nah, you’re buying into a bigoted stereotype. In reality, they’d get a Toyota Corolla with alloy wheels and a bigger engine. *poof*, there goes the 10,000.
Comment by Anonymous — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 7:49 pm
Well Winter; Kimmo W told a bald faced lie in 79#.
Israel has a policy of demolishing houses of homes that *suicide/homicide bombers* lived in, not rock throwers, otherwise no house would be standing. [Try defending your logic about that one Kimmo]
It did result in a few cases were family members turned in the would be bomber(if they knew what he or she were planning) but the dividends were not strong enough to continue the practice. So it was ended.
Comment by KGS59 — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 8:48 pm
“yes we are such a hell hole, nobody wants to come here, and everyone is leaving????”
The very small intellectual minority of the U.S. left a long time ago. Only the completely docilized and ignorant americans actually believe that any sane person would like to move into to the U.S. The only exception are mexicans and people from third world countries who don’t know better.
“To bad I have an extra 10,000 to spend at Walmart that a common Finn does not have.”
Most likely I’m wealthier than most americans, but I’m also educated enough to care about the world and the environment. You’re a typical example of the american docilization product, an ignorant person who actually believes that unnecessary consumption is something admirable.
“Having to feed 4 cars, 2 boats, with gas is the EU version of a Hell Hole to live in.”
Ditto. If you want to make me impressed, get rid of the unnecessary cars and boats, invest into a renevable energy, recycle and get a reasonable car (if you need one at all). There’s more in life than wasting the last drops of oil and polluting the whole planet. It’s sad (and worrying) that your intellectual cabability is that low.
Comment by Anonymous — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 9:04 pm
So they modified the policy that was in force in the “first intifada” in the late 1980s, which mainly invovled low-level street fighting. The damage to the hearts and minds was already done. In some places, memories extend beyond the last season of The Bold and the Beautiful.
And no matter when it happened, it is a tactic that Winter seems to support.
Comment by Kimmo W. — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 9:04 pm
Israel is fighting against terrorist? Open your eyes. The isralies are the true terrorists.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/07/31/wmid131.xml
Comment by Anonymous — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 9:06 pm
“yes we are such a hell hole, nobody wants to come here, and everyone is leaving???? But then again I am not EU Politically correct again.
To bad I have an extra 10,000 to spend at Walmart that a common Finn does not have. Having to feed 4 cars, 2 boats, with gas is the EU version of a Hell Hole to live in.”
Oh boy, you really make this easy. Unnecessary consumption and pollution is exactly one of the main things that is despised by every civilized person around the world (including the intellectual minority in the U.S.), and you’re actually bragging about it.
Thank god I have education, I’ve travelled around the world (unlike most americans who’ve never been out of the U.S. or their own state, and don’t have any clue about the world, it’s dimensions, cultures and politics), I have clean nature, safe streets and educated countrymen who can actually draw logical conclusions from facts
(unlike the average americans who flunk even the most basic knowledge: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/1996/05/24/MN67867.DTL).
I’ve never been to a country as oppressive and suffocating as the U.S. It’s like a one huge sand box filled with little kids in adult bodies brainwashed by the U.S. school system (http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/chapters/index.htm) and media filled with nothing but cheap entertainment, mindlessly polluting the world, starting illegal wars and believing absurdities (be it political or religious). Only a totally clueless and naive person would choose to live in the U.S.
Comment by Anonymous — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 9:19 pm
“The isralies are the true terrorists.”
No they aren’t! I’m sure they said “oops” just like they did with the UN post, and that makes it all right, doesn’t it?
Comment by Kimmo W. — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 9:37 pm
Only a totally clueless and naive person would choose to live in the U.S.
Or, alternatively, an educated person who’d prefer a six figure paycheck to the crumbs offered by Finnish employers so that he’d finally, perhaps, at some stage would be able to afford a crappy 50 sqm apartment in some suburb of Vantaa.
I’m putting in my DV-2007 application, thank you very much.
Comment by Anonymous — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 10:00 pm
“Unnecessary consumption and pollution is exactly one of the main things that is despised by every civilized person around the world (including the intellectual minority in the U.S.), and you’re actually bragging about it.”
Yep. I live in America. We love our toys. Its the same as you all having second houses on your lakes. (Unnecessary consumption so don’t be throwing and rocks here)
By the way my neighbor beats me hands down with 3 cars, 2 trucks, and now he just got a 3rd boat. Damm the neighbors. Plus he has a gun closet could stock a 3rd world army very well. Bambi needs to duck and cover this fall, as we are going hunting.
Comment by winter — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 10:02 pm
I don’t see how the number of cars or boats equates to excessive consumption, especially since it’s only possible to use one-at-a-time. Same with houses/cabins, unless both are kept heated continuously.
It might not be such a bad thing to purchase lots of assets; their construction creates jobs—maybe not jobs in their country of use, but jobs nonetheless.
I would rate excessive consumption on the amount of fuel an individual consumes each year. That would be more telling, IMO.
Comment by Kristian (in Espoo) — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 10:55 pm
#90
Oh, and by the way, I don’t own a car right now. I’ll probably purchase one again when I move away from Finland…..again.
Taxes are too high here, so I only do that type of purchasing abroad.
Comment by Kristian (in Espoo) — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 10:59 pm
winter:
Bambi needs to duck and cover this fall, as we are going hunting.
Just don’t go and shoot yourself in the ‘nads. What a loss that would be to the human gene pool.
Slightly related:
http://funnies.paco.to/jeepDarwin.html
Kristian:
I don’t see how the number of cars or boats equates to excessive consumption
If only their manufacture had no environmental impact.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 11:40 pm
angry finnish male:
The observer was a professional solder who knew the risks being in the warzone.
As did the captured Israeli “soldgers” (as winter puts it).
But it fits perfectly well in the Halonen-Tuomioja doctrine not to accept apologies and to do more anti-Israel politics.
Well. Your Örkki&Tavja-bashing would suggest a right-wing political stance. You probably consider yourself a patriot. Strange, then, that you consider getting to the bottom of the death of a Finnish officer of lesser importance than pandering to the foreign power responsible for his death.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 11:49 pm
Anon:
From the psychologist’s point of view, Finnpundit is clearly demonstraing the signs that are typical to persons with the antisocial personality disorder (F60.2/301.7), better known as psychopathy/sociopathy.
The welfare state made you say that!
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Mon, Sep 18th, 2006 @ 11:50 pm
Anon has it backwards. The brothers Pundwinter are in fact Green Party stooges with a Wobbly background deployed on this board to discredit the foaming-at-the mouth right, just as KGS59 is an obvious Hizbollah plant. I think they should be applauded for their courageous stand in going undercover in this way, rather than being pilloried all the time. I imagine it must make for tricky moments at home over the dinner table when they have to be wary about slipping into character – kind of like that double life Uncle Arnie had in “True Lies”.
Cut the poor guys some slack – they’re on your side, really. And they are doing a wonderful job.
Comment by Viides kolonna — Tue, Sep 19th, 2006 @ 12:35 am
“Finnish officer of lesser importance than pandering to the foreign power responsible for his death.”
refering to the UN?
Comment by winter — Tue, Sep 19th, 2006 @ 12:49 am
Anonymous:
Not all of the intellectual minority have left the U.S. Some of us actually hate what has gone on in this country, from Iraq to the complete disregard for global warming, to the Government wanting to sanction torture…the list goes on. We would love to see this country go in a different direction and are working hard towards this goal. I am hopeful that the mid-term elections might bring some change.
However, if worse comes to worse, at least I have Finnish citizenship and have the possibility of an escape route. So many of my friends don’t have that luxury.
Comment by nipsu — Tue, Sep 19th, 2006 @ 3:35 am
“Not all of the intellectual minority have left the U.S. ”
yes… the intellectual elite was thrown out, in the last 2 elections, and we do not want you snobs back. Good riddance.
Comment by winter — Tue, Sep 19th, 2006 @ 5:31 am
Yes, indeed,the current US administration certainly has nothing to do with intellect.
A couple of days ago SubTV had an episode of The Simpsons where Homer was elected Springfield’s Garbage Commissioner with disastrous results. Although I believe that the episode was produced in the late ’90s, it is a good metaphor for the predicament of the United States under the Bush Aministration.
Comment by Kimmo W. — Tue, Sep 19th, 2006 @ 8:51 am
winter wrote:
“yes… the intellectual elite was thrown out, in the last 2 elections, and we do not want you snobs back. Good riddance.”
Oh my.. Did you notice that you’re actually starting to sound like a true communist?
Comment by Åboy — Tue, Sep 19th, 2006 @ 9:31 am
“you’re actually starting to sound like a true communist?”
Why do you think that they call them “the red states”?
Comment by Kimmo W. — Tue, Sep 19th, 2006 @ 10:12 am
@100,
not so much Communist as Maoist. The Great Cultural Revolution, part 2.
Comment by prince of dorkness — Tue, Sep 19th, 2006 @ 11:20 am
‘political correctness opens many doors even in military’, anonymous sock-puppet in post 70.
Fortunately some militaries have overcome this: http://www.splcenter.org/intel/news/item.jsp?aid=66&printable=1
Comment by prince of dorkness — Tue, Sep 19th, 2006 @ 11:24 am
“I am hopeful that the mid-term elections might bring some change.”
I think the media is going people a real dis-service by failing to convey the real election situation. Just like in 2004 and 2002 the polls are severely distorted to favor Democrats. So expect yet another apology from the polling group after the elections are over and “somehow” the Republicans gain more seats yet again.
The Democrats have a real problem, which is drifting from sanity.
Comment by fred fry — Tue, Sep 19th, 2006 @ 4:36 pm
Fred, you’re quite right. I’m noticing the same kind of wish-based thinking in the media that preceded 02 and 04.
Yet anything can happen in an election.
Comment by Finnpundit — Tue, Sep 19th, 2006 @ 5:02 pm
“I think the media is going people a real dis-service by failing to convey the real election situation.”
One needs to keep in mind that majority opinions of the US electorate do not necessarily translate into Congressional majorities – hell, they don’t even determine who gets elected President! In addition to the pitfalls inherent the winner-take-all system, a number of Republican-controlled states have been busy gerrymandering electoral districts (see http://education.yahoo.com/reference/encyclopedia/entry/gerryman).
If the Republicans manage to pull it off again and stay in power, the consolation is that it will be increasingly difficult for them to blame anyone else when the disasters they have put in motion blow up in their faces.
Comment by Kimmo W. — Tue, Sep 19th, 2006 @ 6:42 pm
In the last two elections there were two main problems that they identified:
– Unhappy people were more likely to talk to a pollster either on the phone in the time coming to an election or in person after voting on election day.
– Pollsters were young people who tended to target people more like them or who they thought would agree with their position.
Both of these items resulted in higher results for Democrats.
The polling company tends to rebalance the results by weighting the figures to better reflect the number of registered Repubs and Dems in the area. Unfortunately, that has also been documented as a cause of skewed polls towards the Dems.
They are all learning though, this time around there is little talk of this election being a referendum on the Bush Policy. Take that as a sign of what Dems think will happen in November.
Comment by fred fry — Tue, Sep 19th, 2006 @ 7:15 pm
“busy gerrymandering electoral districts ”
after the Demms invented the practice to keep the Republicans out.
Guess what Demms, now its revenge time.
Comment by winter — Tue, Sep 19th, 2006 @ 7:32 pm
95#
Fifth Column is dillusional as he is “obtuse”, with a touch of humour.
Comment by KGS59 — Tue, Sep 19th, 2006 @ 7:56 pm
@108
Please don’t mistake me as a spokesperson of the Democratic wing of the single ruling party of the United States!
Comment by Kimmo W. — Tue, Sep 19th, 2006 @ 8:20 pm
Winter:
Wow. I sense bitterness, judgment, and not a little bit of self righteousness.
Comment by nipsu — Tue, Sep 19th, 2006 @ 8:44 pm
America’s shame just keeps growing.
The Faux Shirt Stain: Interrogator points at suspect’s chest: “Look, you’ve got something on your shirt.†When suspect looks down, interrogator brings up index finger, tweaking suspect’s nose. Interrogator laughs. This grievous affront, a loss of honor in the eyes of Allah, administers massive psychic trauma to suspect.
Repeat as needed.
Comment by winter — Tue, Sep 19th, 2006 @ 9:34 pm
@112
Your point being…?
Comment by Kimmo W. — Tue, Sep 19th, 2006 @ 11:08 pm
“Look, you’ve got something on your shirt.†When suspect looks down, interrogator brings up index finger, tweaking suspect’s nose.”
There is one slightly autistic boy in my neighbourhood. He always pulls that trick on everybody and you must pretend to fall in the trap to make him happy about 1 megatimes. To be honest, it’s really torture towards the end.
I’m not kidding.
Comment by Antti (the redneck one) — Tue, Sep 19th, 2006 @ 11:28 pm
Meanwhile, back in the Middle East…
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article1619227.ece
Comment by Kimmo W. — Wed, Sep 20th, 2006 @ 12:10 am
And in the Sudan: Fear and Loathing in Sudan, about 1 million are being killed as we type here, and nobody cares. Yes, the world is a nasty place to live. At least the USA does something about it.
Did you do anything? Did the EU or UN do ANYTHING?
Comment by winter — Wed, Sep 20th, 2006 @ 4:54 am
Some of the changes in the Middle East have been dramatic, and we see the results of democracy in action.
Five years ago, Afghanistan was ruled by the brutal Taliban regime.
Five years ago, Iraq’s seat in this body was held by a dictator who killed his citizens, invaded his neighbors and showed his contempt for the world by defying more than a dozen U.N. Security Council resolutions.
Some of the changes in the Middle East are happening gradually, but they are real. Algeria has held its first competitive presidential election, and the military remained neutral.
The United Arab Emirates recently announced that half of its seats in the Federal National Council will be chosen by elections.
Kuwait held elections in which women were allowed to vote and run for office for the first time.
Citizens have voted in municipal elections in Saudi Arabia and parliamentary elections in Jordan and Bahrain and in multiparty presidential elections in Yemen and Egypt.
Damm the USA again. They did something. Did the EU do anything you all can point out?
Comment by winter — Wed, Sep 20th, 2006 @ 5:07 am
@116
(on Sudan) “Did you do anything? Did the EU or UN do ANYTHING?”
Did you – other than using it as an opportunity to bitch?
@117
“Five years ago, Afghanistan was ruled by the brutal Taliban regime.”
Alot of it still is, and they seem to be growing stronger. But hey, why not? After all they are essentially a US creation.
“Five years ago, Iraq’s seat in this body was held by a dictator who killed his citizens…”
And now the Americans are doing it instead.
“invaded his neighbors…”
The USA never had a problem with that, as long as Iran was the target! Compared with the Iran war, the Kuwait thing was relatively benign.
“…and showed his contempt for the world by defying more than a dozen U.N. Security Council resolutions.”
Leave it to Winter to champion the cause of the noble UN!
“Algeria… The United Arab Emirates… Kuwait… Saudi Arabia… Bahrain… Yemen and Egypt.”
And of course, NONE of that would have happened without the benevolent intervention of the United States – the only possible source of anything good happening in this sad, ungrateful world!
Comment by Kimmo W. — Wed, Sep 20th, 2006 @ 9:06 am
Meanwhile back in Middle East, Palestinians and terrorists still recruit children. This suits for Finnish communist because it is a part of their ideology.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060919/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_fighting_kids
Comment by alo — Wed, Sep 20th, 2006 @ 10:32 am
Neither side in the conflict has clean hands. I mainly object to the tendency of some to promote Israel as being inherently virtuous.
“This suits for Finnish communist because it is a part of their ideology.”
Alo is indulging in a logical fallacy known as the straw man argument.
Comment by Kimmo W. — Wed, Sep 20th, 2006 @ 10:47 am
“I do not agree that the dog in a manger has the final right to the
manger even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do
not admit that right. I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people
by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly
wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place.”
Winston Churchill
“I do not understand this sqeamishness about the use of gas. I am
strongly in favour of using poison gas against uncivilised tribes.” -
Winston Churchill, 19 February, 1920, before the start of the Arab
uprising
“Winston Churchill: The Last Hero” – US. News and World Report 29 May 2000
http://youtube.com/watch?v=7vnaf8R_
shame. shame on every single one of you. on behalf of all arabs i’d like to thank you for the mess you’ve left us with. you’ve raped us, and i feel so sorry for my brothers who strap on bombs to themselves out of desparation. we know you are kind hearted people. especially finns are. but i can never forgive you for what you have done to us. you squabble about petty things, when all this time people are dying because of your mistakes. so since you are a “stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly
wise race to put it that way”, clean up the sh*t you left on us.
you have radicalized us and turned us into monsters. now it’s time for you to find out the conditions of our cages.
Comment by ths — Wed, Sep 20th, 2006 @ 11:07 am
“The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do.” – Samuel P. Huntington
“It’s really not a number I’m terribly interested in.” [When asked about the number of Iraqi people who were slaughtered by Americans in the 1991 "Desert Storm" terror campaign (200,000 people!)] – General US General Colin Powell
“If Kuwait grew carrots, we wouldn’t give a damn.” – Lawrence Korb, assistant defense secretary under Reagan
“[the Middle East is] a stupendous source of strategic power, and one of the greatest material prizes in world history.” – U.S. State Department, 1945
“… somehow we find it hard to sell our values, namely that the rich should plunder the poor.” – former US Secretary of State John Foster Dulles
“The U.S.A. has supplied arms, security equipment and training to governments and armed groups that have committed torture, political killings and other human rights abuses in countries around the world.” – Amnesty International [October 1998]
‘No one in this world has the right to put Israel on trial. No one. On the contrary, Israel may have the right to put others on trial, but certainly no one has the right to put the Jewish people and the state of Israel on trial.’ – Israel’s prime minister, Ariel Sharon, to a U.S. commission investigating violence in Israel
“(We need an) ..Arab facade ruled and administered under British guidance and controlled by a native Mohammedan and, as far as possible, by an Arab staff…. There should be no actual incorporation of the conquered territory in the dominions of the conqueror, but the absorption may be veiled by such constitutional fictions as a protectorate, a sphere of influence, a buffer state and so onâ€Â. – Lord Curzon on installing the puppet Feisal as King of Iraq
“We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?’ Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said ‘Drive them out!’” – Yitzhak Rabin, memoirs, New York Times, 23 Oct 1979
“It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism,colonialization or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands.” – Yoram Bar Porath, Yediot Aahronot, of 14 July 1972.
Roosevelt received him [British ambassador Lord Halifax] that very evening at the White House. Their discussion focused on the Middle East. Trying to ally Halifax’s apprension and irritation, Roosevelt showed the ambassador a rough sketch he had made of the Middle East. Persian oil, he told the ambassador, is yours. We share the oil of Iraq and Kuwait. As for Saudi Arabian oil, it is ours. Daniel Yergin – The Prize: The Epic Quest for Oil, Money, and Power – New York:Simon and Schuster, 1991,401
“Our strategic and security interests throughout the world will be best safeguarded by the establishment in suitable spots of ‘Police Stations’, fully equipped to deal with emergencies within a large radius. Kuwait is one such spot from which Iraq, South Persia, Saudi Arabia and the Persian Gulf could be controlled. It will be worthwhile to go to considerable trouble and expense to establish and man a ‘Police Station’ there.” – British Foreign Office, policy memo, 1947
“If they turn on the radars we’re going to blow up their damn SAMs (surface-to-air missiles). They know we own their country. We own their airspace… We dictate the way they live and talk. And that’s what’s great about America right now. It’s a good thing, especially when there’s a lot of oil out there we need.” – U.S. Brig. General William Looney (Interview Washington Post, August 30, 1999)
“If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti – Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?” – David Ben Gurion, The Jewish Paradox, pp121 by Nahum Goldmann
“I will never apologize for the United States of America. I don’t care what the facts are.” After the US destroyer Vincennes in Iranian territorial waters, shoots down an Iranian commercial flight (Iran Air 654) in Iranian airspace killing all 286 passengers. – George Bush is quoted in the magazine, Newsweek, 1985
“Entering the city [Jerusalem, July 15, 1099], our pilgrims pursued and killed Saracens up to the Temple of Solomon, in which they had assembled and where they gave battle to us furiously for the whole day so that their blood flowed throughout the whole temple. Finally, having overcome the pagans, our knights seized a great number of men and women, and the killed whom they wished and whom they wished they let live…. Then, rejoicing and weeping from extreme joy, our men went to worship at the sepulchre of jour Saviour Jesus and thus fulfilled their pledge to Him…. They also ordered that all the Saracen dead should be thrown out of the city because of the extreme stench, for the city was almost full of their cadavers. The live Saracens dragged the dead out before the gates and made piles of them, like houses. No one has ever heard of or seen such a slaughter of pagan peoples since pyres were made of them like boundary marks, and no one except God knows their number.” – Histoire anonyme de la premiere croisade, L. Brehier
“Actually, its a lot of fun to fight. You know, it’s a hell of a hoot. I like brawling…You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for 5 years because they didn’t wear a veil…You know, guys like that ain’t got no manhood left anyway. So it’s a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them.” – Lt. Gen. James Mattis, US Army
“It’s a hard choice, but I think, we, think, it’s worth it.” Her response to a May 11, 1996 60 Minutes question about the over half a million children killed by the [Iraqi] sanctions. – Madeleine Albright 64th U.S. Secretary of State
I think, Dr. Railly, you’ve given the alarmists a bad name…surely there’s very real and very convincing data that the planet cannot survive the excesses of the human race. Proliferation of atomic devices…uncontrolled breeding habits…pollution of land, sea and air, the rape of the environment…in this context isn’t it obvious that Chicken Little represents the sane vision, and that homo sapiens’ motto–”let’s go shopping”–is the cry of the true lunatic?
-Dr. Peters, “12 Monkeys”
“Advise Dr. Herzl not to take any further steps in his project. I can not give away a handful of the soil of this land for it is not my own, it is for all the Islamic Nation. The Islamic Nation that fought Jihad for the sake of this land and they have watered it with their blood. The Jews may keep their money and millions. If the Islamic Khalifah State is one day destroyed then they will be able to take Palestine without a price! But while I am alive, I would rather push a sword into my body than see the land of Palestine cut and given away from the Islamic State. This is something that will not be, I will not start cutting our bodies while we are alive.” – Sultan Abdul Hameed’s refusal to see Theodor Herzl, founder of the Zionist movement
This very week in 1989, there were protests in East Berlin and in Leipzig. By the end of that year, every communist dictatorship in Central America had collapsed.
–George w. Bush
Washington, DC
11/06/2003
The Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him) said, “Those who go to extremes are doomed; those who go to extremes are doomed; those who go to extremes are doomed.”
Comment by ths — Wed, Sep 20th, 2006 @ 11:23 am
@alo, post 120,
if recruiting children is bad, killing children might be considered at least a tiny little bit reprehensible. Except if you’re Finnpundit, then it’s a great way to reduce the welfare rolls.
Comment by prince of dorkness — Wed, Sep 20th, 2006 @ 2:24 pm
Kimmo W
still waiting to see if the EU has done ANYTHING, just 1 thing is all I am looking for.
I will accept. “We criticized the USA for doing something.” as your answer?????? I mean, criticism is doing something.
Comment by winter — Wed, Sep 20th, 2006 @ 5:18 pm
Sorry. I’m still trying to figure out #112.
Comment by Kimmo W. — Wed, Sep 20th, 2006 @ 7:08 pm
still waiting to see if the EU has done ANYTHING, just 1 thing is all I am looking for.
Well, you must understand that the RU in its current form has not been in existence for so long.
But it’s not that bad. In 1939-1945 united Europe engaged in many of your favourite activities with quite commendable vigour, including:
-torturing lots of folks (what’s a few drops of water)
-gassing millions of people pre-emptively (gotta get ‘em before they get you)
-invading other countries
-seizing (or attempting to seize) control of natural resources, most importantly oil
And, almost forgot
-killing lots of Americans
Is that the kind of action you’re looking for?
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Wed, Sep 20th, 2006 @ 11:40 pm
Prince of dorkness,
I hardly consider commondreams or andrew sullivan to be loonies. In fact, Andrew Sullivan is one of the most coherent gadflies on the net. I respect his opinions a great deal.
With all due fairness to Finland, a country I love, I just don’t think there’s the spirit of feisty speech that there is in the US. That has both its pluses and minuses, of course.
Comment by AmeriikanEnkeli — Thu, Sep 21st, 2006 @ 8:46 am
@AmeriikanEnkeli,
I was thinking more of Finnpundit or Little Green Footballs.
Sullivan has his moments, true. And American feisty speech can be great.
Comment by prince of dorkness — Thu, Sep 21st, 2006 @ 10:32 am
THERMOVOLTAIK – CURRENT FROM WARMTH
ADD THERMAL GENERATORS – decentralized current supply for each household.
The new thermal generator generation are pollution free, efficiently, compactly and efficient. Status of information: 09.01.2007 The Thermovoltaik is the sphere of activity of physics, which is concerned with the transformation of heat energy into electricity. One cannot produce or destroy only convert energy. If two different metals or alloys are together contacted and heated up, a low electrical tension develops between the metals.
A thermal current generator, patent DE 43 13 827 A1, consists laminar contacted layers of metal of several in row on suitable carriers of thermoelectric neutral materials, which serve as conductor. These identical thin-layered laid on thermocouples those from two different thermoelectric materials exist, are laminar contacted at the ends of the oblong carriers. The lower side heated up, on the side opposite cooled, recommendable is the cooling with liquid hydrogen, which is led thereafter gaseously to the combustion chamber. From the temperature difference of the pairs of thermocouples arranged opposite electrical DC voltage with high current value results. The use of several identical Thermopaare for tension production is a comfortable compromise settlement, which energy conversion in such a way efficient not used and is strongly limited. The new thermal generators according to the computer centre additive method the thermal cells also contacted in row are developed, are not more effective in the comparison to any longer the temperature gradient procedure up-to-date like above, an additional cooling as is common knowledge, are not not necessary.
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A HIGH CURRENT INVERTER (patent) for thermal generators conceived, with elements of unorthodox design, is converted DC voltage in in or multi-phases alternating voltage (three-phase alternating current simulator) and opens new areas of application in the heavy current technology with low electrical tensions. Typical characteristics are variable entrance DC voltage 0.1 V up to 250 V, output point alternating voltage 0.2 to 500 V, frequency up to 400 cycles per second. HSWR are indispensable for the withdrawal of the maximally possible current value of Thermgeneratoren. Example. Passage stream with 14 V of input voltage approx. 50,000 ampere and
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