Nordic Shangri-La
@ 2:29 pm So nothing bad ever happens in Shangri-La, but one needs to be prepared. The Finnish Security Police (SUPO) has enough to do with fox-girls and anarcrazies.
There are no signs of a threat that would directly affect Finland, but the situation is being monitored.
At the same time, Finland and international terrorism have nevertheless come closer together in other ways: in the past five years new terrorism clauses have been written into Finnish law, the readiness of the police and other authorities has been stepped up, and SUPO itself has acquired its own anti-terrorism unit, which has in turn improved intelligence-gathering.The police now have a legally-mandated right, if push comes to shove, to call upon the Finnish Air Force to scramble an F-16 Hornet to shoot down a commercial airliner that terrorists have hijacked. These are big changes, if there are no signs of any direct threat.
Overkill? I don’t think so. It is easy to think nothing will happen here. And its easy to turn into yourself and block the evil world, and evil foreign peoples, and live in your own nest…
“Not so very long ago it was possible to say with some confidence that terrorists come from camps a long way away. Now the discussion is coming around to the fact that they are in fact boys and girls from much closer to home, who are taking part in plans to blow up themselves and a huge number of other people.”
Illusions of safety maybe? I wonder when will the first “International Incident” happen in Finland?
I was walking near Kammpi last night and some girl about 20-meters away farted really loudly. It almost shattered some glass. She didn’t realize that I was nearby until afterwards.
I have to say that, between girls’ public spitting, belching and now farting, we’ve got bigger problems in Finland than mere terrorism.
Comment by Kristian (in Espoo) — Thu, Sep 14th, 2006 @ 3:57 pm
Didn’t some guy in SUPO e-mail the fox-girls and anarcrazies some time ago and asked them to notify, if they are up to something.
I guess it’s the other way around. They don’t have enough resources for the abovementioned groups.
Comment by antti (the redneck one) — Thu, Sep 14th, 2006 @ 4:35 pm
It’s F-18 Hornet.
Comment by samwyse — Thu, Sep 14th, 2006 @ 6:06 pm
There is at least one suspected jihadist in Finland:
“Abu Bakar Heikkila”
He is the guy who was arrested in Georgia on his way to fight in Chechnya. As far as I can tell, he returned to Finland and is wandering free. That is a problem because this guy was not only willing to act but did, traveling to go fight. Now that he has survived his first adventure, he is probably grown a little braver. Problem is, he is probably looking at targets a little closer to home.
I would list him as a threat.
Comment by Fred Fry — Thu, Sep 14th, 2006 @ 6:13 pm
Rule number 1:
Don’t change your name to “Abu Bakar.†Right away, athourities will become suspicious. Instead, just use it as a nickname around your bearded jihadist friends
Comment by Kristian (in Espoo) — Thu, Sep 14th, 2006 @ 6:36 pm
Samwyse, I spotted the same. Maybe I’m thinkin in a too complicated way, but perhaps the error was intenrtonal? The author perhaps wants to remind that we bought Hornets, which are originally attack planes, instead of F-16’s, which is primarily a fighter. Maybe the author thinks that now these planes are used to attack terrorists instead of just defenfing the country… Or he simply has made a mistake.
Comment by T — Thu, Sep 14th, 2006 @ 7:51 pm
There is at least one suspected jihadist in Finland:
Isn’t it amazing how the noble Chechen freedom fighters turned into nasty terrorists almost overnight, and how the “Filtration camps” in the best Cheka tradition suddenly became essential in the fight for democracy and freedom?
Sic transit gloria mundi.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Thu, Sep 14th, 2006 @ 8:01 pm
Maybe I’m thinkin in a too complicated way,
Highest probability is that the writer doesn’t know their ass from their elbow… Or using logic, as F-18 is mainly a Navy plane on Aircraft carriers, so Finland like has land fighters… or then not.
Then again it isn’t the first time in Finnish Air Force history they’ve used US Navy fighters, last time with quite some success.
Comment by Hank W. — Thu, Sep 14th, 2006 @ 8:35 pm
One reason for buying F/A-18 for qualitas potentia nostra was that those highway bases, scattered all around the country for the airforce wartime operation, are approximately as spacious as an aircraft carrier.
On subject of the Finnish jihadists, I suspect they are in line with our modern times radicals, such as taistoites; a heck of a noise, but no revolution.
I hope though, that the part of the Finnish “intelligentsiya” with totalitarian preferences doesn’t bump into radical islam.
Comment by Antti (the redneck one) — Thu, Sep 14th, 2006 @ 10:09 pm
Hi all,
I will try to keep this posting short. I have a friend who is a security consultant in a well known Finnish based firm which I will not mention here to protect the identity of this individual and his company. Anyway, his company conducted a series of security audits in Helsinki around christmas last year. It involved leaving a bobby trapped bag in a public area and waiting for someone to open it, to gauge the responce/awareness of the average finnish public. As no big surprise the target bag was alone for a long while without any interference even when placed in the railway station which I thought was very surprising. The booby trap was a mild indoor firework which made a bang when a fuse was pulled. In the study apparently it showed that the elderly or older generation were the most likely to investigate and open an unattended bag. This study was commissioned by a governemnt agency I believe, so its very possible an exact report can be found on the web about the word-for-word findings.
But this does show that the threat assessments are being made. And also that other cities apart from Helsinki are high on the target list for possible “terrorist” targets. but the most important comment i thought my friend made was that Finland’s biggest danger was its role as a European training ground for terror cells. Finnish people in general do not have a high security awareness factor such as in ireland, UK, Spain for example. Where the public call the bomb squad to blow up unattended bags at railway stations for example. Causing huge delays and diversions to everyone else, also a weapon of the terrorist.
Training exercises would in large go un-noticed in finland. Unless a building or a body count was involved. From Finland a traveller has virtually unlimited access to Europe and largely without any papers being required.
As a disclaimer, this posting is ofcourse my own interpretation of “my friends” first hand knowledge of the tasks, so any incorrect or not fully detailed points are totally up to the reader to interpret, and judge. I accept no responsibility for wrongly labelled F-16’s, locations in Finland, or any other flame war-able/quote-able items.
Comment by dave — Fri, Sep 15th, 2006 @ 2:58 am
Dave – Interesting to know such tests are being made. I’m reasonably certain some jihadist nutcases are already here as once when I was standing in line at the police station to pick up my residence permit I noticed a guy put a magazine/leaflet on the rack with all the application forms on it. After he had left the building and I came up next to the rack in line, I picked it up and started leafing through it as I was curious. It was a publication in all arabic language with some random stories and pictures of such things as medical procedures, but then there was a section with photos of the WTC on 9/11 that had been circled in red marker with a few words and exclamation points. It gave me the creeps and I put it back down wondering who it was intended for and hoping they didn’t notice my leafing through it.
I don’t know that Finns wouldn’t notice a few dark-skinned people running around with guns, but recruiting is certainly a possibility here given the small number and their minority status here. If SUPO can’t assess the threat of a bunch of kids with sticks and have the appropriately non-hysterical response it makes me wonder what would happen in the case of a real terrorism threat here.
Comment by hfb — Fri, Sep 15th, 2006 @ 1:20 pm
“Training exercises would in large go un-noticed in finland” I spend quite a lot of time out in the woods rock climbing in various odd places all over southern Finland. I happen to have been climbing recently quite a lot with two other British guys who live in Helsinki. Believe me when the three of us go and sit in a rural petrol station for post- or pre- climb munkki ja kahvi we seem to be the most interesting thing that has happened in weeks for the amounts of not so furtive gawps you get. And we are all white.
I can’t imagine any non-Finns could carry out training exercises beyond the most facile here without being noticed let alone a group of say, beared British-pakistani boys.
Comment by Toby — Fri, Sep 15th, 2006 @ 4:36 pm
There were some allegations about Bader-Meinhof terrorists summercottaging and giving their nerves some rest in Finland in the 70’s.
On the public security awareness, of course it is not high in Finland. In London, the writing has been on the tube station wall for what? 40 years telling people to be a lert (sic!) and report the unattended bags etc. In Finland there has been no need for that simply for the reason there hasn’t been any IRA bomb campaigns. I refuse to be alert and afraid, until there is some real reason. There is enough government kyykkyyn-ylös in this country already.
Comment by Antti (the redneck one) — Fri, Sep 15th, 2006 @ 5:54 pm
Dave: security assesments should also look inwards, such into the actions of the Immigration and police, especially how those actions victimize an increasingly sizable group of immigrants. This conclusion has already been raised in a number of other countries, namely that life post-9/11 resulted in an often excessive surveillance of people of foreign origin, to an extent that easily creates a feeling of oppression sufficient to motivate e.g. joining a terrorist cell.
One should also remember that while Finland did not send any troops in Iraq, it however contributed exactly two police officers to the multinational group training the new Iraqi police force. This fact alone might be enough to get Finland labeled as a willing partner in USA’s war mongering campain.
Comment by Martin-Éric — Fri, Sep 15th, 2006 @ 6:55 pm
“This conclusion has already been raised in a number of other countries, namely that life post-9/11 resulted in an often excessive surveillance of people of foreign origin, to an extent that easily creates a feeling of oppression sufficient to motivate e.g. joining a terrorist cell.”
– That is a load of bull. Most of those who were al-qaeda and taliban joined it prior to 9/11. If that were true than why are blacks in the US not part of Jihad? The real reasons are found in the communities themselves and in the hate speeches in the mosques. Another problem with your statement is that many of the new jihadis are being caught in appeasment countries like Canada, Germany, France. Many more than in the US.
“One should also remember that while Finland did not send any troops in Iraq, it however contributed exactly two police officers to the multinational group training the new Iraqi police force. This fact alone might be enough to get Finland labeled as a willing partner in USA’s war mongering campain.”
That’s nothing. The Finland terror risk report had cases of muslim imans in Finland reporting that word was in the community that Finns participated in the crusades. Try and undo that. The report also cited that actions mean nothing as they will find an excuse if they decide to attack you.
Comment by Fred Fry — Sat, Sep 16th, 2006 @ 4:12 pm
Fred, if you’ll pardon my French: get your head out of your ass for a second and realize that some disenfranchised victims of racism and xenophobism are not Muslim, Al Quaeda cell members or terrorists. Besides, examples in Canada, UK and US show that not everyone who joined terrorist cells was of Middle-Eastern extraction either.
There are also ethnic EU minorities such as Baltic Slavs and Gypsies that their local governments consider as foreigners and systematically try to deport, westerners who routinely face increasingly intrusive scrutiny simply because they are not EU nationals, etc. Westerners usually have the option to simply go home. For the others, THIS has always been their home. They are victims of paranoia in their homeland and are growing increasingly tired of the blatant violations of their rights. I’m afraid that some of them might give up waiting for the paranoia to stop and take matters into their own hands. I really don’t want to be here the day they do.
The best course of action is to admit that the border guards, the Immigration and the police all have their share of blame in feeding the racist and xenophobic paranoia in Finland, then to do something about educating them and about getting rid of the worst paranoia feeders in their ranks.
Comment by Martin-Éric — Sat, Sep 16th, 2006 @ 10:30 pm
Martin-Eric, I’m afraid your rejoinder sounds quite weak compared to Fred’s points. What have Baltic Slavs and Gypsies got to do with post-9/11 security concerns? Is this one of those French attempts to find Grande Themes behind all practical policy considerations?
The fact is that the stepped-up security precautions, – especially the FBI interview of some 5000 Muslim immigrants in the US, on a completely arbitrary basis – sent the right kind of message. I find it very astounding that we’ve had no successful terrorist cases in the US since 9/11, given the demonization of the US throughout the world.
The real problem in the US are not Muslim immigrants, but possible anti-American European terrorists. Europe, after all, is a major incubator for terrorists, given the refugee status so many terrorists are accorded, and the pass terrorism is granted if it suits European ideologies.
Comment by Finnpundit — Sun, Sep 17th, 2006 @ 3:38 am
“Fred, if you’ll pardon my French: get your head out of your ass for a second and realize that some disenfranchised victims of racism and xenophobism are not Muslim, Al Quaeda cell members or terrorists. Besides, examples in Canada, UK and US show that not everyone who joined terrorist cells was of Middle-Eastern extraction either.”
– Even with all the ‘oppression’ it is the Muslims (born and converted) that do the lion’s share of terror acts. (Note: I did not say arabs. I said Muslims. I do not care what the color of their skin is.)
“I’m afraid that some of them might give up waiting for the paranoia to stop and take matters into their own hands. I really don’t want to be here the day they do.”
– Are you suggesting that the gypsies in Finland might start some sort of insurgency? There is no money in it for them to strap explosives to their body and board the 3T tram during rush hour. Half of their complaints are probably just a way to extort more money out of the social welfare system.
– In the US, we have millions of illegal aliens roaming around with no fear of the FBI and police. It is Europe that is hassling these groups of their own initiative. The US cares little about them as they are not a threat. (to the US.) Anyway, it is the job of the border Guards, immigration and the police to be suspicious. They might treat westerners differently, but I suspect that is more due to experience than racism. News is also out that Muslims are moving to the US in record numbers. Hardly a sign of oppression.
Appeasement will get you nowhere, except perhaps on a slab. The police should be able to investigate where the leads take them. After all, that’s their job.
Comment by Fred Fry — Sun, Sep 17th, 2006 @ 8:32 am
Finns (including Gypsies) are too well tamed to try anything that drastic, but Gypsies in other countries like Greece or Poland might and when they do, the whole EU is gonna go ballistic and follow your lead: where you see every Muslim as a bad guy determined to destroy America, EU would see every Gypsy as a bad guy determined to destroy EU. To every Fred Fry with a hammer, everything and everyone is a Muslim nail sticking out. As for acts of terror, European and American history is full of them and no single Muslim was needed in their accomplishment. Looking through the eyeglass of history, 9/11 was an isolated incident; USA’s repeated assaults on Asian and Middle-Eastern soil was not.
Comment by Martin-Éric — Sun, Sep 17th, 2006 @ 2:22 pm
“To every Fred Fry with a hammer, everything and everyone is a Muslim nail sticking out. As for acts of terror, European and American history is full of them and no single Muslim was needed in their accomplishment.”
– The Muslim community has serious problems. While most are not terrorists, they are doing little to help identify those who are real threats, even to their own community.
– You can give the threats chocolate, flowers, and even aid money but the end result will be the same. Maybe they will kill you last. Then again, the terrorists seem to be targeting the places where voices similar to yours are the loudest.
“Looking through the eyeglass of history, 9/11 was an isolated incident; USA’s repeated assaults on Asian and Middle-Eastern soil was not.”
- Hmmm, you have a short memory. 9/11 was a follow-up attack for the ‘93 bombing. (And what was the reason for that attack?)
There has been a boatload of ‘isolated’ incidents.
– USS COLE bombing
– USS THE SULLIVANS (Failed bombing. Bomber’s boat sank)
– Iraq invading Kuwait
– Iran storming the US Embassy
– Hezbollah bombing the US Marine Baracks in Lebanon
– 1993 World Trade Center bombing
– TWA Bombing
– Shoe bomber
– Africa Embassy bombings
– London metro bombings
– Spain train bombings
– Attempted train bombings in Germany
– Bali bombings
Just to name a few. The problem is not US and European policy, other than it is too soft on the Governments where these people come from. The problems lie in their own countries, starting with a lack of any real education.
Comment by Fred Fry — Sun, Sep 17th, 2006 @ 6:04 pm
Fred Fry:
The problem is not US and European policy, other than it is too soft on the Governments where these people come from.
So the US and Europe should bomb London when UK muslim extremists decide to blow up the Piccadilly line. Or what?
The problems lie in their own countries, starting with a lack of any real education.
That’s certainly true when the terrorists happen to come from the US, and probably the UK as well.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Sun, Sep 17th, 2006 @ 9:21 pm
Actually a lot of those terrorists seem to be children from “good families”. For instance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myyrmanni_bombing
Comment by PTH — Sun, Sep 17th, 2006 @ 9:28 pm