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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Oh shit, the grocery store is closed this Sunday&#8221;</title>
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	<description>Politics, current events, culture - From Finland &#38; United States</description>
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		<title>By: Hee</title>
		<link>http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/09/03/cant-a-man-get-a-piece-of-salmon-on-a-sunday/comment-page-2/#comment-95553</link>
		<dc:creator>Hee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Sep 2006 18:18:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/09/03/cant-a-man-get-a-piece-of-salmon-on-a-sunday/#comment-95553</guid>
		<description>one of the reasons I want to go back to Finland is because stores close. Sundays everyone is off, people can truly meet. And be human beings instead of 24 hour robots. People need the money? Yeah and they&#039;ll need more and  more of it if the shops all open all week.
It&#039;s the last stronghold against the consumer world. Yeah it doesn&#039;t hurt having one special 24 hour store and a couple of 24hour convenience stores, and that&#039;s what Finland has. I never had trouble finding an open grocery store in Finland and I lived in the middle of nowherema:ki</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>one of the reasons I want to go back to Finland is because stores close. Sundays everyone is off, people can truly meet. And be human beings instead of 24 hour robots. People need the money? Yeah and they&#8217;ll need more and  more of it if the shops all open all week.<br />
It&#8217;s the last stronghold against the consumer world. Yeah it doesn&#8217;t hurt having one special 24 hour store and a couple of 24hour convenience stores, and that&#8217;s what Finland has. I never had trouble finding an open grocery store in Finland and I lived in the middle of nowherema:ki</p>
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		<title>By: Keksi</title>
		<link>http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/09/03/cant-a-man-get-a-piece-of-salmon-on-a-sunday/comment-page-2/#comment-88014</link>
		<dc:creator>Keksi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Sep 2006 17:12:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/09/03/cant-a-man-get-a-piece-of-salmon-on-a-sunday/#comment-88014</guid>
		<description>Obviously some recent poll agrees with you :)

http://www.mtv3.fi/uutiset/kotimaa.shtml/arkistot/kotimaa/2006/09/468094</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obviously some recent poll agrees with you <img src='http://www.finlandforthought.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p><a href="http://www.mtv3.fi/uutiset/kotimaa.shtml/arkistot/kotimaa/2006/09/468094" rel="nofollow">http://www.mtv3.fi/uutiset/kotimaa.shtml/arkistot/kotimaa/2006/09/468094</a></p>
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		<title>By: winter</title>
		<link>http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/09/03/cant-a-man-get-a-piece-of-salmon-on-a-sunday/comment-page-2/#comment-87269</link>
		<dc:creator>winter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Sep 2006 00:11:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/09/03/cant-a-man-get-a-piece-of-salmon-on-a-sunday/#comment-87269</guid>
		<description>looking at purchasing a business

Interesting. Both of my neighbords here in Maryland are bidding on businesses. Neither think the taxes will be a problem.

But then again, Tim73 will tell you we are headed to a depression, and will uncritically spout depressing economic nonsense on a regular basis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>looking at purchasing a business</p>
<p>Interesting. Both of my neighbords here in Maryland are bidding on businesses. Neither think the taxes will be a problem.</p>
<p>But then again, Tim73 will tell you we are headed to a depression, and will uncritically spout depressing economic nonsense on a regular basis.</p>
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		<title>By: Hank W.</title>
		<link>http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/09/03/cant-a-man-get-a-piece-of-salmon-on-a-sunday/comment-page-2/#comment-87002</link>
		<dc:creator>Hank W.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Sep 2006 05:57:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/09/03/cant-a-man-get-a-piece-of-salmon-on-a-sunday/#comment-87002</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;since I am looking at purchasing a business in Finland.
I must be crazy to do such a thing. &lt;/i&gt;

You could be utterly mad and purchase a business in Sweden... there the VAT is 25%, and taxes... yeah, wow...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>since I am looking at purchasing a business in Finland.<br />
I must be crazy to do such a thing. </i></p>
<p>You could be utterly mad and purchase a business in Sweden&#8230; there the VAT is 25%, and taxes&#8230; yeah, wow&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Freeridin' Franklin</title>
		<link>http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/09/03/cant-a-man-get-a-piece-of-salmon-on-a-sunday/comment-page-2/#comment-86507</link>
		<dc:creator>Freeridin' Franklin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Sep 2006 06:24:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/09/03/cant-a-man-get-a-piece-of-salmon-on-a-sunday/#comment-86507</guid>
		<description>Fred Fry:
&lt;i&gt;I am finding this discussion a great eye-opener (as well as a number of other threads) since I am looking at purchasing a business in Finland.&lt;/i&gt;

Yes, it is terrible. Employees use their company email accounts for personal email, some even use the company toilet without their employers&#039; express permission and there are even sodomites!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fred Fry:<br />
<i>I am finding this discussion a great eye-opener (as well as a number of other threads) since I am looking at purchasing a business in Finland.</i></p>
<p>Yes, it is terrible. Employees use their company email accounts for personal email, some even use the company toilet without their employers&#8217; express permission and there are even sodomites!</p>
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		<title>By: Finnpundit</title>
		<link>http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/09/03/cant-a-man-get-a-piece-of-salmon-on-a-sunday/comment-page-2/#comment-86482</link>
		<dc:creator>Finnpundit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Sep 2006 04:09:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/09/03/cant-a-man-get-a-piece-of-salmon-on-a-sunday/#comment-86482</guid>
		<description>There are some other good places to park your corp, like Curacao.  One guy I know parked his funds in Malta, of all places (he says it&#039;s one of the best).  And then there&#039;s Switzerland, Europe&#039;s very one freerider, par excellence.

I have some trusted lawyers in Finland, who handle my affairs for me.  And no, they do not handle my funds.  But in understanding your possible exposure they are very worthwhile.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are some other good places to park your corp, like Curacao.  One guy I know parked his funds in Malta, of all places (he says it&#8217;s one of the best).  And then there&#8217;s Switzerland, Europe&#8217;s very one freerider, par excellence.</p>
<p>I have some trusted lawyers in Finland, who handle my affairs for me.  And no, they do not handle my funds.  But in understanding your possible exposure they are very worthwhile.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred Fry</title>
		<link>http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/09/03/cant-a-man-get-a-piece-of-salmon-on-a-sunday/comment-page-2/#comment-86464</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Fry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Sep 2006 02:56:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/09/03/cant-a-man-get-a-piece-of-salmon-on-a-sunday/#comment-86464</guid>
		<description>&quot;Oh no, Fred! Put such a notion right out of your head. ItÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s crazy to try to purchase a business in Finland.&quot;

Yes, well there is also the possibility of turning the system on it&#039;s head and having fun with it.  Then again the whole 22% VAT gives me the feeling like I have the mafia as a business partner, caring less if I make a profit, just as long as I keep paying them.  Now if I make a 22% profit, then all of a sudden I am a gouger!

&quot;incorporate somewhere like Bermuda, and have your Bermuda company bill your Finnish clients for your services.&quot;
 - Never, ever use a UK jurisdiction for an offshore corporation!  The UK forced all their &#039;dependencies&#039; to eliminate bearer shares as well as require the jurisdictions to collect the information on the beneficial owners in order to provide the info to their home countries upon request. (If someone does have an offshore corporation in one of the UK offshores, send me an email.)
 - Instead of going fully offshore, you can try Estonia, which does not tax corporate profits until they have been distributed to the owners.  Anyway, there is a good change that you will have to register the offshore company in Finland and at that point you are open to investigation.  There were recent stories in the news about tax evasion in Finland.
 - Beware of tax lawyers who claim that they can handle your funds.  I deal with them and many are incompetant, they lie, and some also steal.  What a corrupt industry.  What kind of demand are there for that type of services in Finland?  Let me manage your finances!
 - As a foreigner in Finland, I plan to be very careful and make sure that everything is legit, right to the billing.  It is all to easy for someone to report you.  After all, too many people hate it when they see someone doing well, or even assuming that they are going well.  (God forbid I make good use of some unskilled labor.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Oh no, Fred! Put such a notion right out of your head. ItÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s crazy to try to purchase a business in Finland.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes, well there is also the possibility of turning the system on it&#8217;s head and having fun with it.  Then again the whole 22% VAT gives me the feeling like I have the mafia as a business partner, caring less if I make a profit, just as long as I keep paying them.  Now if I make a 22% profit, then all of a sudden I am a gouger!</p>
<p>&#8220;incorporate somewhere like Bermuda, and have your Bermuda company bill your Finnish clients for your services.&#8221;<br />
 &#8211; Never, ever use a UK jurisdiction for an offshore corporation!  The UK forced all their &#8216;dependencies&#8217; to eliminate bearer shares as well as require the jurisdictions to collect the information on the beneficial owners in order to provide the info to their home countries upon request. (If someone does have an offshore corporation in one of the UK offshores, send me an email.)<br />
 &#8211; Instead of going fully offshore, you can try Estonia, which does not tax corporate profits until they have been distributed to the owners.  Anyway, there is a good change that you will have to register the offshore company in Finland and at that point you are open to investigation.  There were recent stories in the news about tax evasion in Finland.<br />
 &#8211; Beware of tax lawyers who claim that they can handle your funds.  I deal with them and many are incompetant, they lie, and some also steal.  What a corrupt industry.  What kind of demand are there for that type of services in Finland?  Let me manage your finances!<br />
 &#8211; As a foreigner in Finland, I plan to be very careful and make sure that everything is legit, right to the billing.  It is all to easy for someone to report you.  After all, too many people hate it when they see someone doing well, or even assuming that they are going well.  (God forbid I make good use of some unskilled labor.)</p>
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		<title>By: Finnpundit</title>
		<link>http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/09/03/cant-a-man-get-a-piece-of-salmon-on-a-sunday/comment-page-2/#comment-86433</link>
		<dc:creator>Finnpundit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Sep 2006 00:22:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/09/03/cant-a-man-get-a-piece-of-salmon-on-a-sunday/#comment-86433</guid>
		<description>66.  Oh no, Fred!  Put such a notion right out of your head.  It&#039;s crazy to try to purchase a business in Finland.

I looked into it, when I was working for an international corporation looking to expand into the Nordic countries.  Having seen the financials and inner workings of many small Finnish businesses was a major eye-opener.  It&#039;s just not worth it to invest in Finland, especially if you&#039;re a small entrepreneur.

If there is a way for you to open a consultancy, then the options might be better.  In that case, incorporate somewhere like Bermuda, and have your Bermuda company bill your Finnish clients for your services.  

Be sure to check the details with a Finnish lawyer, but I&#039;ve known of a couple of such cases, so it should work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>66.  Oh no, Fred!  Put such a notion right out of your head.  It&#8217;s crazy to try to purchase a business in Finland.</p>
<p>I looked into it, when I was working for an international corporation looking to expand into the Nordic countries.  Having seen the financials and inner workings of many small Finnish businesses was a major eye-opener.  It&#8217;s just not worth it to invest in Finland, especially if you&#8217;re a small entrepreneur.</p>
<p>If there is a way for you to open a consultancy, then the options might be better.  In that case, incorporate somewhere like Bermuda, and have your Bermuda company bill your Finnish clients for your services.  </p>
<p>Be sure to check the details with a Finnish lawyer, but I&#8217;ve known of a couple of such cases, so it should work.</p>
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		<title>By: Kristian (in Espoo)</title>
		<link>http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/09/03/cant-a-man-get-a-piece-of-salmon-on-a-sunday/comment-page-2/#comment-86424</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristian (in Espoo)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Sep 2006 23:48:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/09/03/cant-a-man-get-a-piece-of-salmon-on-a-sunday/#comment-86424</guid>
		<description>#65
Fred---what can I say, except that we&#039;re quite the marxists.

Unfortunate, but apparently true :-/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#65<br />
Fred&#8212;what can I say, except that we&#8217;re quite the marxists.</p>
<p>Unfortunate, but apparently true :-/</p>
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		<title>By: Fred Fry</title>
		<link>http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/09/03/cant-a-man-get-a-piece-of-salmon-on-a-sunday/comment-page-2/#comment-86422</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Fry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Sep 2006 23:35:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/09/03/cant-a-man-get-a-piece-of-salmon-on-a-sunday/#comment-86422</guid>
		<description>I am finding this discussion a great eye-opener (as well as a number of other threads) since I am looking at purchasing a business in Finland.

I must be crazy to do such a thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am finding this discussion a great eye-opener (as well as a number of other threads) since I am looking at purchasing a business in Finland.</p>
<p>I must be crazy to do such a thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred Fry</title>
		<link>http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/09/03/cant-a-man-get-a-piece-of-salmon-on-a-sunday/comment-page-2/#comment-86420</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Fry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Sep 2006 23:33:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/09/03/cant-a-man-get-a-piece-of-salmon-on-a-sunday/#comment-86420</guid>
		<description>&quot;When daddy starts banging the secretary, it is mommyÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s fault. SheÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s being punished for her sins. Gotta love Republican family values!&quot;

Excuse me, but if you look at my post, I ask, where is her husband.  In this case, where is daddy.  Make daddy pay, not the rest of us, who act more responsible.

&quot;Ah, American prosperity theology at its best. Working in a low-skill job means that you are an evil person and deserve all the shit you get, as you are being punished for your sins. In order to improve your condition, you need to repent and join the Republican Party and maybe get a few select friends at the local country club.&quot;

Hey now.  Lets take a look at what the Finnish Government says about working in Finland:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Like the other Nordic countries, Finland is a welfare state. To put it simply, this means that nobody in Finland need go hungry. In order for it to be possible to safeguard welfare, the
work contribution of everyone is required. When a person is healthy and capable of working, he or she is expected to train for a profession and to maintain himself or herself and the family by
working. If a person is unemployed or too old to cope alone, society secures his or her basic needs.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Looks like my position is closer to the official line that yours.  As I keep pointing out, the shipyard in Finland has training programs that lead directly to a good paying job.  They can&#039;t find enough people.  What&#039;s wrong with those jobs?  Against wearing a boiler suit? Something against getting dirty? There are other opportunities, but just go and sit around complaining about how the work of unskilled labor is not appreciated.  Perhaps that is because there is an oversupply of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;When daddy starts banging the secretary, it is mommyÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s fault. SheÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s being punished for her sins. Gotta love Republican family values!&#8221;</p>
<p>Excuse me, but if you look at my post, I ask, where is her husband.  In this case, where is daddy.  Make daddy pay, not the rest of us, who act more responsible.</p>
<p>&#8220;Ah, American prosperity theology at its best. Working in a low-skill job means that you are an evil person and deserve all the shit you get, as you are being punished for your sins. In order to improve your condition, you need to repent and join the Republican Party and maybe get a few select friends at the local country club.&#8221;</p>
<p>Hey now.  Lets take a look at what the Finnish Government says about working in Finland:</p>
<blockquote><p>Like the other Nordic countries, Finland is a welfare state. To put it simply, this means that nobody in Finland need go hungry. In order for it to be possible to safeguard welfare, the<br />
work contribution of everyone is required. When a person is healthy and capable of working, he or she is expected to train for a profession and to maintain himself or herself and the family by<br />
working. If a person is unemployed or too old to cope alone, society secures his or her basic needs.</p></blockquote>
<p>Looks like my position is closer to the official line that yours.  As I keep pointing out, the shipyard in Finland has training programs that lead directly to a good paying job.  They can&#8217;t find enough people.  What&#8217;s wrong with those jobs?  Against wearing a boiler suit? Something against getting dirty? There are other opportunities, but just go and sit around complaining about how the work of unskilled labor is not appreciated.  Perhaps that is because there is an oversupply of it.</p>
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		<title>By: Kristian (in Espoo)</title>
		<link>http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/09/03/cant-a-man-get-a-piece-of-salmon-on-a-sunday/comment-page-2/#comment-86412</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristian (in Espoo)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Sep 2006 23:09:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/09/03/cant-a-man-get-a-piece-of-salmon-on-a-sunday/#comment-86412</guid>
		<description>Hey, I was just using Jerry Springer to illustrate my point; not as evidence :lol:

I do have experience living in the States, and one doesn&#039;t have to look very far to find people who emulate those Springer &#039;guests.&#039; That is, with obtrusive and aggressive behaviors, etc.

And the whole working poor phenomenon is hardly imagined, so I&#039;ll stick to my original assessment in #44.  Again, it&#039;s based on my experience and observations. Not saying there aren&#039;t exceptions though.

For most Europeans, these notions about America are based on what they see repeatedly on TV---both American and EU programs.  They also read plenty about it.  It can&#039;t all be fabrication-via-selection to discredit the economic liberals. After all, there are economic liberals here too. And they know better than to point at America&#039;s &#039;working poor&#039; and say: You can have &#039;opportunities&#039; just like them.

My suggestion to those who would like to see Finland and Europe adopt more liberal economic policies is this:  Don&#039;t try to sell the &#039;American plan&#039; as a package deal; especially if it includes attempting to fuel Europe&#039;s economic engine by squeezing the lowest strata of its working class. 

It doesn&#039;t resonate well here and, IMO, there&#039;s little to be gained economically by cutting the cleaning lady&#039;s monthly salary by 120-euros and shortening her summer vacation by two-weeks.  

There are much better and less divisive ways to do it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, I was just using Jerry Springer to illustrate my point; not as evidence <img src='http://www.finlandforthought.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_lol.gif' alt=':lol:' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I do have experience living in the States, and one doesn&#8217;t have to look very far to find people who emulate those Springer &#8216;guests.&#8217; That is, with obtrusive and aggressive behaviors, etc.</p>
<p>And the whole working poor phenomenon is hardly imagined, so I&#8217;ll stick to my original assessment in #44.  Again, it&#8217;s based on my experience and observations. Not saying there aren&#8217;t exceptions though.</p>
<p>For most Europeans, these notions about America are based on what they see repeatedly on TV&#8212;both American and EU programs.  They also read plenty about it.  It can&#8217;t all be fabrication-via-selection to discredit the economic liberals. After all, there are economic liberals here too. And they know better than to point at America&#8217;s &#8216;working poor&#8217; and say: You can have &#8216;opportunities&#8217; just like them.</p>
<p>My suggestion to those who would like to see Finland and Europe adopt more liberal economic policies is this:  Don&#8217;t try to sell the &#8216;American plan&#8217; as a package deal; especially if it includes attempting to fuel Europe&#8217;s economic engine by squeezing the lowest strata of its working class. </p>
<p>It doesn&#8217;t resonate well here and, IMO, there&#8217;s little to be gained economically by cutting the cleaning lady&#8217;s monthly salary by 120-euros and shortening her summer vacation by two-weeks.  </p>
<p>There are much better and less divisive ways to do it.</p>
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		<title>By: Kat</title>
		<link>http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/09/03/cant-a-man-get-a-piece-of-salmon-on-a-sunday/comment-page-2/#comment-86397</link>
		<dc:creator>Kat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Sep 2006 22:07:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/09/03/cant-a-man-get-a-piece-of-salmon-on-a-sunday/#comment-86397</guid>
		<description>Maybe it&#039;s because everyone needs a day to recover from their hangovers?:D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe it&#8217;s because everyone needs a day to recover from their hangovers?:D</p>
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		<title>By: Freeridin' Franklin</title>
		<link>http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/09/03/cant-a-man-get-a-piece-of-salmon-on-a-sunday/comment-page-2/#comment-86379</link>
		<dc:creator>Freeridin' Franklin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Sep 2006 21:34:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/09/03/cant-a-man-get-a-piece-of-salmon-on-a-sunday/#comment-86379</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I think much of the so-called Ã¢â‚¬ËœguestsÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ on Springer are paid actors from local trailer parks.&lt;/i&gt;

Why trailer parks exist in the first place, while the American poor all live in mansions, is a bit of a mystery to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I think much of the so-called Ã¢â‚¬ËœguestsÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ on Springer are paid actors from local trailer parks.</i></p>
<p>Why trailer parks exist in the first place, while the American poor all live in mansions, is a bit of a mystery to me.</p>
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		<title>By: hfb</title>
		<link>http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/09/03/cant-a-man-get-a-piece-of-salmon-on-a-sunday/comment-page-2/#comment-86375</link>
		<dc:creator>hfb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Sep 2006 21:18:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/09/03/cant-a-man-get-a-piece-of-salmon-on-a-sunday/#comment-86375</guid>
		<description>I think much of the so-called &#039;guests&#039; on Springer are paid actors from local trailer parks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think much of the so-called &#8216;guests&#8217; on Springer are paid actors from local trailer parks.</p>
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