Comments on: Kill 23 people with a truck - get 3 months probation. Drive 23km over the limit - get 30 000 fine. http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/31/kill-23-people-with-a-truck-get-3-months-probation-drive-23km-over-the-limit-get-30-000-fine/ Politics, current events, culture - From Finland & United States Mon, 13 Oct 2008 05:37:19 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: antti (the redneck one) http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/31/kill-23-people-with-a-truck-get-3-months-probation-drive-23km-over-the-limit-get-30-000-fine/#comment-62373 antti (the redneck one) Fri, 02 Jun 2006 10:48:49 +0000 http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/31/kill-23-people-with-a-truck-get-3-months-probation-drive-23km-over-the-limit-get-30-000-fine/#comment-62373 Well, I consider the 30000e ticket, for example, to some Oulu member of the rich noveau a wag of a finger. The sentence passed in the court for that truck driver was not the 3 months of probation, but the verdict 'guilty'. In the given circumstances, that accident could have happened to me or anybody as well. The driver is not a bloody psychopath, who doesn't give a damn. We heard all the horror stories at the tramdriver course. One driver committed suicide some time after found guilty of involuntary manslaughter in a traffic accident, the other was freed of charges, but started drinking. One guy from my class was involved in that accident in the 90's, where one HKL worker was squeezed to death between two trams. He still tries to deal with it, one girl had a suicide case. She was lucky as they found the farewell note later. Well, I consider the 30000e ticket, for example, to some Oulu member of the rich noveau a wag of a finger.

The sentence passed in the court for that truck driver was not the 3 months of probation, but the verdict ‘guilty’. In the given circumstances, that accident could have happened to me or anybody as well. The driver is not a bloody psychopath, who doesn’t give a damn.

We heard all the horror stories at the tramdriver course. One driver committed suicide some time after found guilty of involuntary manslaughter in a traffic accident, the other was freed of charges, but started drinking. One guy from my class was involved in that accident in the 90’s, where one HKL worker was squeezed to death between two trams. He still tries to deal with it, one girl had a suicide case. She was lucky as they found the farewell note later.

]]> By: a german http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/31/kill-23-people-with-a-truck-get-3-months-probation-drive-23km-over-the-limit-get-30-000-fine/#comment-62365 a german Fri, 02 Jun 2006 09:09:03 +0000 http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/31/kill-23-people-with-a-truck-get-3-months-probation-drive-23km-over-the-limit-get-30-000-fine/#comment-62365 Speed driving: Crime against state rules: Unforgivable Killing 23: Joint intended/unintended crime against citizens: Ignorable.... Finland. Speed driving: Crime against state rules: Unforgivable
Killing 23: Joint intended/unintended crime against citizens: Ignorable….

Finland.

]]> By: Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/31/kill-23-people-with-a-truck-get-3-months-probation-drive-23km-over-the-limit-get-30-000-fine/#comment-62356 Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho Fri, 02 Jun 2006 06:27:42 +0000 http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/31/kill-23-people-with-a-truck-get-3-months-probation-drive-23km-over-the-limit-get-30-000-fine/#comment-62356 The fines are set up with the intent that everybody gets the same punishment. What would 100 euros be to a millionaire? I find that very just. The fines are set up with the intent that everybody gets the same punishment. What would 100 euros be to a millionaire? I find that very just.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/31/kill-23-people-with-a-truck-get-3-months-probation-drive-23km-over-the-limit-get-30-000-fine/#comment-62286 Anonymous Thu, 01 Jun 2006 20:54:21 +0000 http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/31/kill-23-people-with-a-truck-get-3-months-probation-drive-23km-over-the-limit-get-30-000-fine/#comment-62286 "I think the most outrage is that because of a technicality, the company wiggled out of the responsibility of the overloading/tight schedules." And, why companies overload trucks and demand too tight schedules: money, money, money, eternal greed... “I think the most outrage is that because of a technicality, the company wiggled out of the responsibility of the overloading/tight schedules.”

And, why companies overload trucks and demand too tight schedules:
money, money, money, eternal greed…

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/31/kill-23-people-with-a-truck-get-3-months-probation-drive-23km-over-the-limit-get-30-000-fine/#comment-62221 Anonymous Thu, 01 Jun 2006 16:31:27 +0000 http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/31/kill-23-people-with-a-truck-get-3-months-probation-drive-23km-over-the-limit-get-30-000-fine/#comment-62221 I think the most outrage is that because of a technicality, the company wiggled out of the responsibility of the overloading/tight schedules. I think the most outrage is that because of a technicality, the company wiggled out of the responsibility of the overloading/tight schedules.

]]> By: aziz http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/31/kill-23-people-with-a-truck-get-3-months-probation-drive-23km-over-the-limit-get-30-000-fine/#comment-62122 aziz Thu, 01 Jun 2006 05:34:00 +0000 http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/31/kill-23-people-with-a-truck-get-3-months-probation-drive-23km-over-the-limit-get-30-000-fine/#comment-62122 Yeah, bring back death sentences for traffic accidents! ... >:( Yeah, bring back death sentences for traffic accidents!

… >:(

]]> By: Basil http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/31/kill-23-people-with-a-truck-get-3-months-probation-drive-23km-over-the-limit-get-30-000-fine/#comment-62052 Basil Wed, 31 May 2006 19:40:34 +0000 http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/31/kill-23-people-with-a-truck-get-3-months-probation-drive-23km-over-the-limit-get-30-000-fine/#comment-62052 Id say it boils down to intent. You rarely drive 25km/h over the speed limit accidentally, or if you do, you should take some driving lessons. Id say it boils down to intent. You rarely drive 25km/h over the speed limit accidentally, or if you do, you should take some driving lessons.

]]> By: Ravvy http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/31/kill-23-people-with-a-truck-get-3-months-probation-drive-23km-over-the-limit-get-30-000-fine/#comment-62025 Ravvy Wed, 31 May 2006 17:46:39 +0000 http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/31/kill-23-people-with-a-truck-get-3-months-probation-drive-23km-over-the-limit-get-30-000-fine/#comment-62025 Hank, I thought your main point was that you weren't sure if the system worked or not (after comparing these examples). It seems (to me) to place a lot of emphasis on the perceived intent of the driver, as opposed to the end result. Hank, I thought your main point was that you weren’t sure if the system worked or not (after comparing these examples). It seems (to me) to place a lot of emphasis on the perceived intent of the driver, as opposed to the end result.

]]> By: Hank W. http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/31/kill-23-people-with-a-truck-get-3-months-probation-drive-23km-over-the-limit-get-30-000-fine/#comment-62008 Hank W. Wed, 31 May 2006 16:25:01 +0000 http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/31/kill-23-people-with-a-truck-get-3-months-probation-drive-23km-over-the-limit-get-30-000-fine/#comment-62008 I am more upset that there was nothing said about the neglect and the state of the roads... And that the truck driver has had to wait *over two years* for the verdict!? No wonder Finland got cited for human rights issue in that court procedures take so long. The points system is I think a step to the right direction, but I am sceptical it will work for the young&stupid drivers you read of in the paper. I am more upset that there was nothing said about the neglect and the state of the roads… And that the truck driver has had to wait *over two years* for the verdict!? No wonder Finland got cited for human rights issue in that court procedures take so long.

The points system is I think a step to the right direction, but I am sceptical it will work for the young&stupid drivers you read of in the paper.

]]> By: S.Y http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/31/kill-23-people-with-a-truck-get-3-months-probation-drive-23km-over-the-limit-get-30-000-fine/#comment-61951 S.Y Wed, 31 May 2006 12:59:24 +0000 http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/31/kill-23-people-with-a-truck-get-3-months-probation-drive-23km-over-the-limit-get-30-000-fine/#comment-61951 I'm sure the driver didn't do it deliberately, so I don't see the point in ruining his life even further. Accidentally killing 23 must be awful, and he could of died too, had his truck collided head on with the bus (which however could of resulted in less casualties considering the circumstances). Although you're right about the fines. I don't agree with the current system in which speeding can cause a *hefty* fine. Now they're considering to have the points for drivers license where enough points will cancel the license. We really don't need this progressive system without any limit, not if we're going to have the points system too. I’m sure the driver didn’t do it deliberately, so I don’t see the point in ruining his life even further. Accidentally killing 23 must be awful, and he could of died too, had his truck collided head on with the bus (which however could of resulted in less casualties considering the circumstances).

Although you’re right about the fines. I don’t agree with the current system in which speeding can cause a *hefty* fine. Now they’re considering to have the points for drivers license where enough points will cancel the license. We really don’t need this progressive system without any limit, not if we’re going to have the points system too.

]]> By: Helsinkian http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/31/kill-23-people-with-a-truck-get-3-months-probation-drive-23km-over-the-limit-get-30-000-fine/#comment-61931 Helsinkian Wed, 31 May 2006 11:31:15 +0000 http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/31/kill-23-people-with-a-truck-get-3-months-probation-drive-23km-over-the-limit-get-30-000-fine/#comment-61931 Hank: "Besides there weren't only children who died." There were many young adults whose parents in most cases were still alive and had to face the situation of their child dying. Regardless of whether the victims were children or grown-ups, the closest relatives in mourning tended to be the victims' parents. Hank: “Besides there weren’t only children who died.”

There were many young adults whose parents in most cases were still alive and had to face the situation of their child dying. Regardless of whether the victims were children or grown-ups, the closest relatives in mourning tended to be the victims’ parents.

]]> By: Hank W. http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/31/kill-23-people-with-a-truck-get-3-months-probation-drive-23km-over-the-limit-get-30-000-fine/#comment-61923 Hank W. Wed, 31 May 2006 10:52:35 +0000 http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/31/kill-23-people-with-a-truck-get-3-months-probation-drive-23km-over-the-limit-get-30-000-fine/#comment-61923 I was just referring the piece of news; maybe I should have written that "the families had applied for compensation but the court dismissed the claims". The court dismissed the claims as the accident wasn't "deliberate". Besides there weren't only children who died. Besides funeral costs, you get all kinds of legal fees, you have to find time to organize everything; then if you have children and the family income drops drastically... even the insurance companies pay something the situation is a big mess and the banks are like vultures... But yes, I agree that in a sense the "Finnish System" is better in the sense you don't have a monetary value on things, except: naali 7 400 euroa, vesikko 5 382 euroa tammihiiri 2 355 euroa. liito-orava 1 009 euron a maamyyrä, metsäpäästäinen ja vaivaishiiri 17 euro... I was just referring the piece of news; maybe I should have written that “the families had applied for compensation but the court dismissed the claims”. The court dismissed the claims as the accident wasn’t “deliberate”. Besides there weren’t only children who died. Besides funeral costs, you get all kinds of legal fees, you have to find time to organize everything; then if you have children and the family income drops drastically… even the insurance companies pay something the situation is a big mess and the banks are like vultures…

But yes, I agree that in a sense the “Finnish System” is better in the sense you don’t have a monetary value on things, except:

naali 7 400 euroa,
vesikko 5 382 euroa
tammihiiri 2 355 euroa.
liito-orava 1 009 euron a
maamyyrä, metsäpäästäinen ja vaivaishiiri 17 euro…

]]> By: Tommi http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/31/kill-23-people-with-a-truck-get-3-months-probation-drive-23km-over-the-limit-get-30-000-fine/#comment-61911 Tommi Wed, 31 May 2006 10:16:22 +0000 http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/31/kill-23-people-with-a-truck-get-3-months-probation-drive-23km-over-the-limit-get-30-000-fine/#comment-61911 Sorry, the earlier comment was directed to Hank W of course... Sorry, the earlier comment was directed to Hank W of course…

]]> By: Tommi http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/31/kill-23-people-with-a-truck-get-3-months-probation-drive-23km-over-the-limit-get-30-000-fine/#comment-61909 Tommi Wed, 31 May 2006 10:07:33 +0000 http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/31/kill-23-people-with-a-truck-get-3-months-probation-drive-23km-over-the-limit-get-30-000-fine/#comment-61909 Phil, why should the families get compensation? (except maybe funeral costs). The though of people getting money for their child that died is disgusting in my opinion. I'm glad we don't have a system that makes people pay MONEY for caused deaths. I guess it's different in USA where you can put a price on everything even life? Phil, why should the families get compensation? (except maybe funeral costs). The though of people getting money for their child that died is disgusting in my opinion. I’m glad we don’t have a system that makes people pay MONEY for caused deaths. I guess it’s different in USA where you can put a price on everything even life?

]]> By: Keksi http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/31/kill-23-people-with-a-truck-get-3-months-probation-drive-23km-over-the-limit-get-30-000-fine/#comment-61904 Keksi Wed, 31 May 2006 09:48:53 +0000 http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/31/kill-23-people-with-a-truck-get-3-months-probation-drive-23km-over-the-limit-get-30-000-fine/#comment-61904 It's always easy just to blame somebody. I think the truck driver has had enough trauma as it is, sure he didn't suffer any losses in the accident but who says he hasn't suffered. I really don't see that eye for an eye concept. The driver never meant to kill 23 people, or who thinks that? It is just an unfourtunate event. The goverment should decide whether they want to give monetary compensation of their loss, instead of the idea of putting someone who survived the accident to pay. But then again, how much is your kid worth? It’s always easy just to blame somebody. I think the truck driver has had enough trauma as it is, sure he didn’t suffer any losses in the accident but who says he hasn’t suffered. I really don’t see that eye for an eye concept. The driver never meant to kill 23 people, or who thinks that? It is just an unfourtunate event. The goverment should decide whether they want to give monetary compensation of their loss, instead of the idea of putting someone who survived the accident to pay. But then again, how much is your kid worth?

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