Kill 23 people with a truck - get 3 months probation. Drive 23km over the limit - get 30 000 fine.
@ 11:29 am I don’t know if the “system works” or not. Basically the truck driver got surprised by black ice, but they can’t sue the government for bad road maintenance now can they?
The Konginkangas traffic accident of spring 2004 (yeah, fast courts) verdict came out today. The truck driver was sentenced for ‘reckless driving’ and ‘causing death’; the truck company was fined 10 000 for ’safety violations’. The court threw out any compensation claims by the families.
On mulla kuormaa aina tonneittain ja tiukka vastuu aina aikatauluistain,
myös yöllä kello käy ja määränpää ei näy kun ajan vain,yölinjallain
On mutka pimeässä aina arvoitus ja linjan pelastaa vain vaaran aavistus
Ja usein kiitotie niin liukas lie kun ajan vain,yölinjallain
It’s always easy just to blame somebody. I think the truck driver has had enough trauma as it is, sure he didn’t suffer any losses in the accident but who says he hasn’t suffered. I really don’t see that eye for an eye concept. The driver never meant to kill 23 people, or who thinks that? It is just an unfourtunate event. The goverment should decide whether they want to give monetary compensation of their loss, instead of the idea of putting someone who survived the accident to pay. But then again, how much is your kid worth?
Comment by Keksi — Wed, May 31st, 2006 @ 12:48 pm
Phil, why should the families get compensation? (except maybe funeral costs). The though of people getting money for their child that died is disgusting in my opinion. I’m glad we don’t have a system that makes people pay MONEY for caused deaths. I guess it’s different in USA where you can put a price on everything even life?
Comment by Tommi — Wed, May 31st, 2006 @ 1:07 pm
Sorry, the earlier comment was directed to Hank W of course…
Comment by Tommi — Wed, May 31st, 2006 @ 1:16 pm
I was just referring the piece of news; maybe I should have written that “the families had applied for compensation but the court dismissed the claims”. The court dismissed the claims as the accident wasn’t “deliberate”. Besides there weren’t only children who died. Besides funeral costs, you get all kinds of legal fees, you have to find time to organize everything; then if you have children and the family income drops drastically… even the insurance companies pay something the situation is a big mess and the banks are like vultures…
But yes, I agree that in a sense the “Finnish System” is better in the sense you don’t have a monetary value on things, except:
naali 7 400 euroa,
vesikko 5 382 euroa
tammihiiri 2 355 euroa.
liito-orava 1 009 euron a
maamyyrä, metsäpäästäinen ja vaivaishiiri 17 euro…
Comment by Hank W. — Wed, May 31st, 2006 @ 1:52 pm
Hank: “Besides there weren’t only children who died.”
There were many young adults whose parents in most cases were still alive and had to face the situation of their child dying. Regardless of whether the victims were children or grown-ups, the closest relatives in mourning tended to be the victims’ parents.
Comment by Helsinkian — Wed, May 31st, 2006 @ 2:31 pm
I’m sure the driver didn’t do it deliberately, so I don’t see the point in ruining his life even further. Accidentally killing 23 must be awful, and he could of died too, had his truck collided head on with the bus (which however could of resulted in less casualties considering the circumstances).
Although you’re right about the fines. I don’t agree with the current system in which speeding can cause a *hefty* fine. Now they’re considering to have the points for drivers license where enough points will cancel the license. We really don’t need this progressive system without any limit, not if we’re going to have the points system too.
Comment by S.Y — Wed, May 31st, 2006 @ 3:59 pm
I am more upset that there was nothing said about the neglect and the state of the roads… And that the truck driver has had to wait *over two years* for the verdict!? No wonder Finland got cited for human rights issue in that court procedures take so long.
The points system is I think a step to the right direction, but I am sceptical it will work for the young&stupid drivers you read of in the paper.
Comment by Hank W. — Wed, May 31st, 2006 @ 7:25 pm
Hank, I thought your main point was that you weren’t sure if the system worked or not (after comparing these examples). It seems (to me) to place a lot of emphasis on the perceived intent of the driver, as opposed to the end result.
Comment by Ravvy — Wed, May 31st, 2006 @ 8:46 pm
Id say it boils down to intent. You rarely drive 25km/h over the speed limit accidentally, or if you do, you should take some driving lessons.
Comment by Basil — Wed, May 31st, 2006 @ 10:40 pm
Yeah, bring back death sentences for traffic accidents!
… >:(
Comment by aziz — Thu, Jun 1st, 2006 @ 8:34 am
I think the most outrage is that because of a technicality, the company wiggled out of the responsibility of the overloading/tight schedules.
Comment by Anonymous — Thu, Jun 1st, 2006 @ 7:31 pm
“I think the most outrage is that because of a technicality, the company wiggled out of the responsibility of the overloading/tight schedules.”
And, why companies overload trucks and demand too tight schedules:
money, money, money, eternal greed…
Comment by Anonymous — Thu, Jun 1st, 2006 @ 11:54 pm
The fines are set up with the intent that everybody gets the same punishment. What would 100 euros be to a millionaire? I find that very just.
Comment by Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho — Fri, Jun 2nd, 2006 @ 9:27 am
Speed driving: Crime against state rules: Unforgivable
Killing 23: Joint intended/unintended crime against citizens: Ignorable….
Finland.
Comment by a german — Fri, Jun 2nd, 2006 @ 12:09 pm
Well, I consider the 30000e ticket, for example, to some Oulu member of the rich noveau a wag of a finger.
The sentence passed in the court for that truck driver was not the 3 months of probation, but the verdict ‘guilty’. In the given circumstances, that accident could have happened to me or anybody as well. The driver is not a bloody psychopath, who doesn’t give a damn.
We heard all the horror stories at the tramdriver course. One driver committed suicide some time after found guilty of involuntary manslaughter in a traffic accident, the other was freed of charges, but started drinking. One guy from my class was involved in that accident in the 90’s, where one HKL worker was squeezed to death between two trams. He still tries to deal with it, one girl had a suicide case. She was lucky as they found the farewell note later.
Comment by antti (the redneck one) — Fri, Jun 2nd, 2006 @ 1:48 pm