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	<title>Comments on: Flat tax advocate murdered</title>
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	<description>Politics, current events, culture - From Finland &#38; United States</description>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/30/flat-tax-advocate-murdered/comment-page-2/#comment-326061</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2007 02:36:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Hello, Your site is great. Regards, Valintino Guxxi</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello, Your site is great. Regards, Valintino Guxxi</p>
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		<title>By: Helsinkian</title>
		<link>http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/30/flat-tax-advocate-murdered/comment-page-2/#comment-62407</link>
		<dc:creator>Helsinkian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jun 2006 16:38:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/30/flat-tax-advocate-murdered/#comment-62407</guid>
		<description>Nice: &quot;The world is so much richer now that we are no longer bound by the powers of logical deduction.&quot;

I think you mean induction (premises of an argument support the conclusion but do not ensure it).

You know for sure when someone else thinks something is likely but not guaranteed. In a murder case it may be smart not to jump into conclusions. Sex, sexuality and human behavior (not to speak of a difficult murder case) are far more complicated matters than ducks being giraffes.

Toby explained very well that he&#039;d been to DTM and he&#039;s not gay. Still your Nice logic says that everybody who&#039;s been to DTM is gay. Does that make Toby a giraffe who walks and talks like a duck?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice: &#8220;The world is so much richer now that we are no longer bound by the powers of logical deduction.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think you mean induction (premises of an argument support the conclusion but do not ensure it).</p>
<p>You know for sure when someone else thinks something is likely but not guaranteed. In a murder case it may be smart not to jump into conclusions. Sex, sexuality and human behavior (not to speak of a difficult murder case) are far more complicated matters than ducks being giraffes.</p>
<p>Toby explained very well that he&#8217;d been to DTM and he&#8217;s not gay. Still your Nice logic says that everybody who&#8217;s been to DTM is gay. Does that make Toby a giraffe who walks and talks like a duck?</p>
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		<title>By: Nice</title>
		<link>http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/30/flat-tax-advocate-murdered/comment-page-2/#comment-62307</link>
		<dc:creator>Nice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jun 2006 21:53:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/30/flat-tax-advocate-murdered/#comment-62307</guid>
		<description>helsinkian:
&quot;a very good point youÃ¢â‚¬â„¢re making there. All of these ideas about people leaving DTM and thus being gay seem to me to be signs of people jumping into conclusions. &quot;

Good point. Also, maybe fat people just have big bones. And if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck it may very well be a giraffe.
Thank you. The world is so much richer now that we are no longer bound by the powers of logical deduction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>helsinkian:<br />
&#8220;a very good point youÃ¢â‚¬â„¢re making there. All of these ideas about people leaving DTM and thus being gay seem to me to be signs of people jumping into conclusions. &#8221;</p>
<p>Good point. Also, maybe fat people just have big bones. And if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck it may very well be a giraffe.<br />
Thank you. The world is so much richer now that we are no longer bound by the powers of logical deduction.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/30/flat-tax-advocate-murdered/comment-page-2/#comment-62223</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jun 2006 16:32:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/30/flat-tax-advocate-murdered/#comment-62223</guid>
		<description>Thats finland for you aziz...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thats finland for you aziz&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: aziz</title>
		<link>http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/30/flat-tax-advocate-murdered/comment-page-2/#comment-62123</link>
		<dc:creator>aziz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jun 2006 05:51:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/30/flat-tax-advocate-murdered/#comment-62123</guid>
		<description>Tobacoo &amp; alcohol, the most valuable things in Finnish household/stores. &quot;I just killed a guy, now I&#039;ll take hes Kossu.&quot; F*ing sick.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tobacoo &amp; alcohol, the most valuable things in Finnish household/stores. &#8220;I just killed a guy, now I&#8217;ll take hes Kossu.&#8221; F*ing sick.</p>
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		<title>By: m</title>
		<link>http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/30/flat-tax-advocate-murdered/comment-page-2/#comment-62024</link>
		<dc:creator>m</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 May 2006 17:39:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/30/flat-tax-advocate-murdered/#comment-62024</guid>
		<description>&quot;This is quite extraordinary. When I first read the news, it was like some murder case from Mika WaltariÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s Komisario Palmu series. (Waltari wouldnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t have settled for a plain murder-robbery motive though.)&quot;

Yes the tabloid headline &quot;Renowned professor killed blabla&quot; sure smelled like a b-class crime story. Especially the use of &quot;renowned&quot;. If the guy had been really famous, surely they would have just used his name (they didn&#039;t mention his name in the whole lööppi).

Think &quot;Matti Nykänen murdedered&quot; vs. &quot;Renowned ski jumper murdered&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;This is quite extraordinary. When I first read the news, it was like some murder case from Mika WaltariÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s Komisario Palmu series. (Waltari wouldnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t have settled for a plain murder-robbery motive though.)&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes the tabloid headline &#8220;Renowned professor killed blabla&#8221; sure smelled like a b-class crime story. Especially the use of &#8220;renowned&#8221;. If the guy had been really famous, surely they would have just used his name (they didn&#8217;t mention his name in the whole lööppi).</p>
<p>Think &#8220;Matti Nykänen murdedered&#8221; vs. &#8220;Renowned ski jumper murdered&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Hank W.</title>
		<link>http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/30/flat-tax-advocate-murdered/comment-page-2/#comment-62001</link>
		<dc:creator>Hank W.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 May 2006 16:06:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/30/flat-tax-advocate-murdered/#comment-62001</guid>
		<description>Well, not couples, but in the days of my lewd youth when I sold porn tapes, guess what kind of tapes went where... ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, not couples, but in the days of my lewd youth when I sold porn tapes, guess what kind of tapes went where&#8230; <img src='http://www.finlandforthought.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Helsinkian</title>
		<link>http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/30/flat-tax-advocate-murdered/comment-page-2/#comment-61995</link>
		<dc:creator>Helsinkian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 May 2006 15:43:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/30/flat-tax-advocate-murdered/#comment-61995</guid>
		<description>Yeah, I heard about those gay farmers. I suppose gay farming couples aren&#039;t that common in Finland, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I heard about those gay farmers. I suppose gay farming couples aren&#8217;t that common in Finland, though.</p>
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		<title>By: Hank W.</title>
		<link>http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/30/flat-tax-advocate-murdered/comment-page-2/#comment-61993</link>
		<dc:creator>Hank W.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 May 2006 15:39:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/30/flat-tax-advocate-murdered/#comment-61993</guid>
		<description>Well, Juha Mieto was shocked :D

The &quot;small town&quot; thing applies to anything/anybody who is &quot;nonconformist&quot;. However there is a bit of a difference between &quot;small town&quot; and &quot;small village&quot; as you do accept a &quot;kylähullu&quot;. Everyone talks about him, but he is ya part of the society. And if you saw that &quot;Ranuan Cowboyt&quot; about the gay farmers in rural Finland, it was quite interesting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, Juha Mieto was shocked <img src='http://www.finlandforthought.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>The &#8220;small town&#8221; thing applies to anything/anybody who is &#8220;nonconformist&#8221;. However there is a bit of a difference between &#8220;small town&#8221; and &#8220;small village&#8221; as you do accept a &#8220;kylähullu&#8221;. Everyone talks about him, but he is ya part of the society. And if you saw that &#8220;Ranuan Cowboyt&#8221; about the gay farmers in rural Finland, it was quite interesting.</p>
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		<title>By: Helsinkian</title>
		<link>http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/30/flat-tax-advocate-murdered/comment-page-2/#comment-61992</link>
		<dc:creator>Helsinkian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 May 2006 15:32:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/30/flat-tax-advocate-murdered/#comment-61992</guid>
		<description>Hank: at least you can&#039;t say talking tales about your neighbors isn&#039;t a common Finnish pastime. Talking with them might not be, but talking about them sure is.

I remember some ten years ago when a friend of mine (also a straight male) told me that this Sillanpää dude is gay and if those aunties who dig him find out they&#039;d be totally shocked.

Now that he&#039;s out, who&#039;s shocked? I think people are today quite ready to accept that someone is gay, at least if it&#039;s an artist.

I think this &quot;everybody knows&quot; and &quot;nobody talks&quot; applies mostly to those who are of an older generation, such as prof. Tikka who was in his early sixties.

But I guess there really is a divide here between cities and small towns. Gay people often move to cities and straight people visit gay bars in cities. In small towns there still is more of this mentality that it&#039;s somehow inappropriate to be gay or talk about it except in the form of gossip behind someone&#039;s back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hank: at least you can&#8217;t say talking tales about your neighbors isn&#8217;t a common Finnish pastime. Talking with them might not be, but talking about them sure is.</p>
<p>I remember some ten years ago when a friend of mine (also a straight male) told me that this Sillanpää dude is gay and if those aunties who dig him find out they&#8217;d be totally shocked.</p>
<p>Now that he&#8217;s out, who&#8217;s shocked? I think people are today quite ready to accept that someone is gay, at least if it&#8217;s an artist.</p>
<p>I think this &#8220;everybody knows&#8221; and &#8220;nobody talks&#8221; applies mostly to those who are of an older generation, such as prof. Tikka who was in his early sixties.</p>
<p>But I guess there really is a divide here between cities and small towns. Gay people often move to cities and straight people visit gay bars in cities. In small towns there still is more of this mentality that it&#8217;s somehow inappropriate to be gay or talk about it except in the form of gossip behind someone&#8217;s back.</p>
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		<title>By: Hank W.</title>
		<link>http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/30/flat-tax-advocate-murdered/comment-page-2/#comment-61985</link>
		<dc:creator>Hank W.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 May 2006 15:12:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/30/flat-tax-advocate-murdered/#comment-61985</guid>
		<description>I think Finnish newspapers are more or less discrete about peoples&#039; (sexual) orientations. I mean they didn&#039;t &quot;out&quot; Jari Sillanpää before he outed himself - of course some magazines like &quot;7 päivää&quot; write whatever but I wouldn&#039;t say IL or IS would rip headlines &quot;soandso is gay&quot; maybe if it comes up in an interview they will rip a headline. It is a question of &quot;everybody knows&quot; and &quot;nobody talks&quot;... which applies  to quite a lot of things in the Finnish society. Of course the &quot;flower-hatted aunties&quot; in this case a politically correct term for &quot;juoruämmät&quot; who have nothing better to do than talk spiteful tales of their neighbors speculate on a lot of things, but there is a wall of silence even somewhere there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Finnish newspapers are more or less discrete about peoples&#8217; (sexual) orientations. I mean they didn&#8217;t &#8220;out&#8221; Jari Sillanpää before he outed himself &#8211; of course some magazines like &#8220;7 päivää&#8221; write whatever but I wouldn&#8217;t say IL or IS would rip headlines &#8220;soandso is gay&#8221; maybe if it comes up in an interview they will rip a headline. It is a question of &#8220;everybody knows&#8221; and &#8220;nobody talks&#8221;&#8230; which applies  to quite a lot of things in the Finnish society. Of course the &#8220;flower-hatted aunties&#8221; in this case a politically correct term for &#8220;juoruämmät&#8221; who have nothing better to do than talk spiteful tales of their neighbors speculate on a lot of things, but there is a wall of silence even somewhere there.</p>
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		<title>By: Helsinkian</title>
		<link>http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/30/flat-tax-advocate-murdered/comment-page-2/#comment-61963</link>
		<dc:creator>Helsinkian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 May 2006 13:51:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/30/flat-tax-advocate-murdered/#comment-61963</guid>
		<description>Toby: a very good point you&#039;re making there. All of these ideas about people leaving DTM and thus being gay seem to me to be signs of people jumping into conclusions. Since we seem to know next to nothing about the suspects, I find it especially strange that there is this automatic assumption about them being gay.

I think it&#039;s quite clear that the victim was gay, though. But the operative word in your comment is &quot;openly&quot;. Now my main source are the tabloids that I don&#039;t read, so it&#039;s just the headlines. One of our leading tabloids quoted &quot;friends&quot; of the victim in a screaming headline saying that they had been fearing for his safety because of his double life. I can&#039;t believe the tabloids would&#039;ve dared to make such a headline if anyone would&#039;ve hinted of the possibility of the victim actually having been straight.

This double life would mean that people who knew the victim knew very well that he was gay but not everybody knew he was gay. So he was either a closeted homosexual or although he didn&#039;t hide it, he hadn&#039;t been interviewed on the topic of being gay; his fame was based on his expertise on taxation law, ballet, the arts etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Toby: a very good point you&#8217;re making there. All of these ideas about people leaving DTM and thus being gay seem to me to be signs of people jumping into conclusions. Since we seem to know next to nothing about the suspects, I find it especially strange that there is this automatic assumption about them being gay.</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s quite clear that the victim was gay, though. But the operative word in your comment is &#8220;openly&#8221;. Now my main source are the tabloids that I don&#8217;t read, so it&#8217;s just the headlines. One of our leading tabloids quoted &#8220;friends&#8221; of the victim in a screaming headline saying that they had been fearing for his safety because of his double life. I can&#8217;t believe the tabloids would&#8217;ve dared to make such a headline if anyone would&#8217;ve hinted of the possibility of the victim actually having been straight.</p>
<p>This double life would mean that people who knew the victim knew very well that he was gay but not everybody knew he was gay. So he was either a closeted homosexual or although he didn&#8217;t hide it, he hadn&#8217;t been interviewed on the topic of being gay; his fame was based on his expertise on taxation law, ballet, the arts etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Toby</title>
		<link>http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/30/flat-tax-advocate-murdered/comment-page-2/#comment-61959</link>
		<dc:creator>Toby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 May 2006 13:34:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/30/flat-tax-advocate-murdered/#comment-61959</guid>
		<description>Was this chap openly gay?  Whilst leaving DTM at 4 am with some young men is obviously going to set tounges wagging, you don&#039;t actually &lt;i&gt;have to be gay&lt;/i&gt; to get into the club.  I&#039;ve been and I&#039;m tediously straight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Was this chap openly gay?  Whilst leaving DTM at 4 am with some young men is obviously going to set tounges wagging, you don&#8217;t actually <i>have to be gay</i> to get into the club.  I&#8217;ve been and I&#8217;m tediously straight.</p>
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		<title>By: Helsinkian</title>
		<link>http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/30/flat-tax-advocate-murdered/comment-page-2/#comment-61940</link>
		<dc:creator>Helsinkian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 May 2006 11:56:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/30/flat-tax-advocate-murdered/#comment-61940</guid>
		<description>Sorry I meant her father not &quot;His&quot; in #53 when referring to Aileen Wuornos. I was referring back to my post #50. Thanks Miriam for your very interesting comments on this ethnicity issue earlier on in the thread.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry I meant her father not &#8220;His&#8221; in #53 when referring to Aileen Wuornos. I was referring back to my post #50. Thanks Miriam for your very interesting comments on this ethnicity issue earlier on in the thread.</p>
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		<title>By: Helsinkian</title>
		<link>http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/30/flat-tax-advocate-murdered/comment-page-2/#comment-61939</link>
		<dc:creator>Helsinkian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 May 2006 11:53:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/05/30/flat-tax-advocate-murdered/#comment-61939</guid>
		<description>Oops, I just wrote that Aileen Wuornos wasn&#039;t Anglo-Saxon. His father, a child molester who hanged himself in prison, was called Leo Dale Pittman. Maybe he was Anglo-Saxon, his nationality is never mentioned in connection with Wuornos. Sure, Wuornos was adopted and raised by the Finnish-American family of her mother&#039;s parents but her ethnic heritage may well have been considerably Anglo-Saxon.

The same goes for Cunanan, I wrote &quot;Not that Cunanan wouldn&#039;t have passed as Caucasian.&quot; Well, Cunanan of course was half Caucasian and rather Caucasian-looking. In fact, his ancestry was half Italian and his parents had divorced. His upbringing may indeed have had more to do with Italian-American than with Filipino values.

So the part of ethnicity of a person of mixed ethnicity that is somehow &quot;exotic&quot; is the only one usually highlighted in these murder cases. Indeed, in the case of the suspects of the Tikka case, we don&#039;t know anything but the label &quot;Estonian&quot; and &quot;Russian&quot;. They could be an Estonian and a Russian of Finnish/Karelian/Ingrian/whatever descent for all we know. As far as Russians go, in that country it is very common indeed for people to be of mixed ethnicity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops, I just wrote that Aileen Wuornos wasn&#8217;t Anglo-Saxon. His father, a child molester who hanged himself in prison, was called Leo Dale Pittman. Maybe he was Anglo-Saxon, his nationality is never mentioned in connection with Wuornos. Sure, Wuornos was adopted and raised by the Finnish-American family of her mother&#8217;s parents but her ethnic heritage may well have been considerably Anglo-Saxon.</p>
<p>The same goes for Cunanan, I wrote &#8220;Not that Cunanan wouldn&#8217;t have passed as Caucasian.&#8221; Well, Cunanan of course was half Caucasian and rather Caucasian-looking. In fact, his ancestry was half Italian and his parents had divorced. His upbringing may indeed have had more to do with Italian-American than with Filipino values.</p>
<p>So the part of ethnicity of a person of mixed ethnicity that is somehow &#8220;exotic&#8221; is the only one usually highlighted in these murder cases. Indeed, in the case of the suspects of the Tikka case, we don&#8217;t know anything but the label &#8220;Estonian&#8221; and &#8220;Russian&#8221;. They could be an Estonian and a Russian of Finnish/Karelian/Ingrian/whatever descent for all we know. As far as Russians go, in that country it is very common indeed for people to be of mixed ethnicity.</p>
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