Finland doesn’t even rank among the top 30 countries on research and development spending

Where did you get that? I think Finland’s spending there is close to the highest in the whole world – Sweden, I think, is ahead and … who else?

The German study, too, was riddled with misunderstandings and even flaws, by the way.

But the investments, or the lack of them, is a problem. But what can you do? It’s like in the USA, why would invest in Montana when you can invest in California or New York – even if the people in Montana speak English and not some marginal and incomprehensible mumbo-jumbo. Let’s change the official language to English, then we could have a canghe …

Somebody should finally start asking these guys the crucial question which is what they are really doing to make things better in Finland. Whining doesn’t get us anywhere. Take this Herlin for example. He never even graduated from the university (guess EK would think education is the key to competitiveness, of course as long as it isn’t free for all), he’s Finland’s first ever Euro billionaire mostly due to inherited money and position, and then, how much does KONE invest in Finland themselves?

Herlin might have some right points but unless these guys start practising what they preach, it’ll all fall on my deaf ears.

MM

One-step program

1) Return to a commodity money. “Kultagramma”, “gold gram” has a nice sound to it. It might require some doing to have the politicians relinquish their control of money, though.

MM – How does a lack of a university degree hinder a businessman who, inherited wealth or not, practices business every day instead of reading about it in a text book? I don’t think you have to do the math to figure out that new business isn’t flocking here and that if Nokia tanked or moved to the US tomorrow that the Finnish economy would be in a world of hurt for a while. One would think that the ‘most competitive’ economy would be growing much faster and be less reliant on one or two industries for a large portion of its economy.

I have always wondered why shopping is so much better and has so much more variety in Stockholm, for example. I live in the center and it seems like every other shop is either a hair salon ( a _third_ in one block just opened down the street from my house) or a rug emporium or a cafe/pub. Even the new Kamppi center has all the same stuff as Sello – mostly women’s clothing shops. Are these the only new businesses that banks will finance or do women really get their hair done and buy new expensive clothes that often?

Hfb, of course it doesn’t hinder per se. It’s just that I don’t always like very much the line EK and its member organizations promote. Like they surely think that education is the key to comptetitiveness, yet the people promoting these ideas don’t even care about educating themselves, as they don’t have to being rich on Daddy’s and Grandpa’s money. It’s exactly always the same people who are willing to ask the others to make concessions, yet very unlike to do that themselves. That was my point.

MM

Neoliberal propaganda! Finland is the best! If you don’t like Finland get the hell out of here!

Time to cut taxes in a major way. Come on Finland get on board the economic train, (By cutting taxes), or continue down the road to caretaker status.

Time to cut taxes in a major way. Come on Finland get on board the economic train, (By cutting taxes), or continue down the road to caretaker status.

I think that this picture best defines the fundamental difference between the EU and USA. Enjoy.

Antti Herlin, the chairman of Technology Industries Finland, said Wednesday that the most cited studies appearing to praise Finland’s international competitiveness had looked at the past.

So Antti is confirming that the trend of tax cuts and general dismantling of the welfare state has hurt Finnish competetiveness. Who would’ve thunk?

MM – Ah, I’m not that familiar with the EK. The criticism seems valid to me though I couldn’t find the reports he cites online.

He might be right and he might be wrong about hat he says. However, the headline that Finland has major economic problems is contradicted by the latest growth forecast which has been revised up (to nearly 4%) and not down.

How anyone can say we have major economic problems with a growth rate that far outstrips almost every other OECD country including the US, is a mystery. Less than optimal I can accept but “major problems” nope.

Phil is a lost case, EVEN AFTER his faulty appendix was removed successfully and he was treated very well at our public hospitals like every other citizen of Finland…what did he do?

He started blasting about nurse’s salaries and blame it all on the Welfare State, the Phil’s enemy number one. Even possible near fatal experience did not change his almost fanatical believe in ultra-right libertarism.

Phil, I can tell you that the major economic problems are located in your USA. You don’t seem to be happy in Finland. Why don’t you go back home?

Phil, I have seen lots of “Help wanted signs” here in Maryland. Plus the local homebuilder turned down my request for him to build me a new house. He seems to be booked for the next 4 years.

Darn, life is tough when you live with where Taxes are Low and profits can be kept by those who actually earn them.

I can tell you that the major economic problems are located in your USA.

I keep wondering if it’s worthwhile to point out the differences in perceptions that exist between Europe and the US, and the reasons for those perceptions. It seems to me that the longer illusions by the weaker Europe exist, the better for the stronger.

The most important concern for Americans, though, is the tendency amongst some Americans to listen to Europe. That will only lead to economic, social, and political weakness, since Europe inherently shapes its policies around the notion that there is value in weakness (though it’s usually known by other terms, like “multiculturalism”, “internationalism”, and, – of course – “social democracy”). This weakness can be infectious, and should, – like any disease – be quarantined.

Luckily, the American public doesn’t pay that much attention to Europe. Europe remains an obsession for American academia, but it fails to inspire the same kind of mass attention within America that the US has within Europe. This translates, eventually, into European insignificance.

So Europe can, and should, be left alone with its image of itself; that way it can never become a real rival to American power.

Finnpundit

So the EU is slipping backwards, and nobody wants to save them?

Darn, and they supported the USA how many times? (Zero)

Whats its like to be on a sinking Titanic?

Isn’t it such that the new tax legistlation by the Center Party makes it actually less profitable to keep monies in and invest to Finland, as opposed to abroad?

P.S. Fuck you, Anglophonist-chauvinists. However you measure it, Finnish language is expanding.

Oh well, according to those herlins et al., we have been sinking as long as I can remember, that’s from the 70′s and for various reasons. And they sure have the remedies. Sometimes the clocks should have been turned so that we would be in the same time zone with the central Europe, sometimes the Kaurismäki films should have been restricted to the domestic audiences only. They will always have the knot du jour you should twist yourself into for the sake of “the national competitivity”.

And if the survival of this country is in short of abandoning the finnish language, to hell with this country. We did OK for 1000 years without it here and 4000 years in somewhere alse, until the swedes and russians invented themselves.

If it is absolutely necessary to have unilingual world, everybody can take the trouble of learning latin or esperanto, as we can take the trouble of learning swedish and english. And no complaints about the cost. We can take it so everybody can take it. Don’t make excuses for laziness.

Did all you guys read what Hesari wrote about EK this morning? Great stuff indeed. The new EK figures show that the Finnish industries are currently doing better than for years and the strongest of them all is Technology Industries, yes, exactly the same organization Herlin Jr. represents. One of their journalists even had a very good commentary next to the article. His main point was almost the same I’ve tried to make here: that EK and its predecessors have been whining for the past two decades he’s been to their press briefings and always seem to find something terribly wrong and rotten here.

Antti, great that you reminded me of the turning the clock issue. From that I also remembered the plans that we should start having our summer holidays in August instead of July because that’s when summer holidays are usually spent in Central Europe.

I simply can’t take this constant whining when the whiners try to avoid taking responsibility themselves in practically correcting the problems. Take for example the idea that we should work longer and older which in itself is very sensible. But how many big business bosses work after they filled 60? Anyway, despite long hours and responsibility, their work is not as hard as manual and physical work and their pension benefits by far overshadow those of manual workers.

MM

For the finnish readers take a look at today’s Helsingin Sanomat. It says:

“Suomen taloudella menee nyt todella hyvin. Tilanne on tavallista parempi kaikilla päätoimialoilla eli teollisuudessa, palveluissa ja rakentamisessa. Teollisuudessa myyntihinnat ovat kääntyneet nousuun.”

Looks like a disaster to me!

…and was it here, or in some other forum…I remember a strong testimonial, that those UN figures are commie biased…

Finnpundit wrote:
“Europe inherently shapes its policies around the notion that there is value in weakness (though it’s usually known by other terms, like “multiculturalism”, “internationalism”, and, – of course – “social democracy”).

Oh right, so you’re a fascist, now I get it. Tell me, who should we in your opinion start oppressing, and perhaps gasing away, so that we might not appear so “weak”? Now your comments start to make a lot more sense. Well, not really, but you just provided the frame of reference that gives your comments somekind of twisted logic at least.

From now on I can safely assume that nothing you say is worth noticing. Thank you very much, Finnbladder.

By the way, it seems that quite a few of the finnish libertarians have been formerly known as neo-nazis. I’ve always suspected a link of somekind between the ideologies but can someone confirm it?

I personally know of two people who were neo-nazis in their youth and who later “re-invented” themselves as libertarians.

In Number 4 above, it is stated that every other shop is either a hairdresser, pub/cafe or rug emporium.

I noticed the same while I was living in Helsinki in the Kampi area. I never saw so many of these in one neighborhood anywhere else in the world where I lived.

Could it be because hairdressers, rug emporiums and cafe/pubs in Finland do more black business than most other businesses, and since they do black business they can survive and perhaps even thrive abit?

In Number 22 above, I diaagree with Aboy. Strength isn’t necessarily bad. In the 1930′s, Chamberlain was weakness personified.I think many of the European politicians today are retro Chamberlains.

By the way, it seems that quite a few of the finnish libertarians have been formerly known as neo-nazis. I’ve always suspected a link of somekind between the ideologies but can someone confirm it?

I can’t see any relation whatsoever. Libertarians are socially liberal and economically right.
Nazis are socially right/consverative and economically left.

By the way, the EK Business Tendency Survey HS also referred to is out also in English on their website:

http://www.ek.fi/ek_englanti/index.php?we_objectID=4087

If our superwhiners produce such praise as this is, it’s hard to know what the so-called major economic problems are the headline here refers to. Well, this is far from being a perfect country but neither are we doing as badly as the doomsday preacher would like us to.

MM

Oh right, so you’re a fascist, now I get it.

That kind of a statement has been aptly described in Godwin’s Law: an automatically losing argument.

Here’s the link, for the curious:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

We should stop deceiving ourselves and admit that EK is a communist organization and in fact Finland’s economy is sinking fast because the taxes are too high and we are too weak. Where are you Vihtori Kosola and Triumph des Willens?! Not to mention the politicians who are constantly printing too much money – behind the back of the EU central bank, in Vanhanen’s basement, I’ve been told.

Laa laaa laaaa laa lapu-VA! Rouva on hyvä vaan.:)

…and was it here, or in some other forum…I remember a strong testimonial, that those UN figures are commie biased…

American pragmatism in action.

“Europe inherently shapes its policies around the notion that there is value in weakness”

Europe has had it’s experiences of social darwinism. We didn’t like it and we’re done with it.

If you’re interested, read more at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_germany

The OECD also released a report on Finland’s economy yesterday. Finland’s economy is performing extraordinarily well, they dare to suggest. Is there no end to the communist consipracy? WHo do they think they’re fooling? “Major economic problems in Finland” would have, of course, been the correct phrasing.

And it would not have been the OECD if they had not been suggesting cutting down on the goverment spending and more flexibility in the labor market (read: wider income distribution).

Finnbladder wrote:
“That kind of a statement has been aptly described in Godwin’s Law”

Hooray, let’s all invent our own “laws”.

Okay. It’s nice to invent ones own laws apparently. In that case I’ll make my own law too. It’s “the law of the dumbass”. The law goes like this: “At some point it is evident that a person will call another person a Kommie Klutz Kid. At that point the person calling the other person by this name is deemed a total dumbass with no shred of credibility whatsoever.”

I think someone has already broken this law.

Heh,
It seems that the commies have taken over the Freedom House as well. Finland is number one in freedom of the press.

http://www.freedomhouse.org/template.cfm?page=70&release=356

By the way, it seems that quite a few of the finnish libertarians have been formerly known as neo-nazis. I’ve always suspected a link of somekind between the ideologies but can someone confirm it?

Many libertarians have strong Nazi sympathies to say the least. There’s more to the ideology than meets the eye, it’s not just about freedom, peace, love and free market flowerpower.

Hooray, let’s all invent our own “laws”.

Godwin’s Law is pretty established. Your law is an application of it.

The problem with Godwin’s Law is that it doesn’t properly address the situation in which the other party really is a nazi, or, say, a “Kommie”.

Ah, but there is a difference. As the Wikipedia entry notes, using nazis to bolster an argument “portrays an inevitable appeal to emotion as well as holding an implied ad hominem attack on the subject being compared, both of which are fallacious in irrelevant contexts.”

However, using the term Kommie Klutz Kidz, rather than the term commie, simply evokes the comedic appeal similar to that of The Three Stooges,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Three_Stooges

or, for example, the Keystone Kops.

Like the Keystone Kops, Kommie Klutz Kidz tend to cluster in comically angry groups, trying to restore some sort of familiar social order whenever confronted with more mercurial individualism inherent in capitalism. The arguments used are always those of the Old Left, which are invoked in the kind of knee-jerk fashion inherent in slapstick comedy.

It’s a term of endearment, if anything.

It’s a term of endearment, if anything.

Well, since you put it that way… I’m not quite sure how to feel about this newfound love, as it is somewhat disturbing, but I’ll settle for being flattered.

A summary of the comments on this website:

RandomFinn: Finland is the best place to live!

RandomAmerican: No, America is the best place to live!

RandomFinn: Fuck you, American.

RandomAmerican: Fuck you, Finn.

Variables include syntax, verb tense, vocabulary, and links. The message, however, is the same.

Actually, it seems that Finns are the ones that cannot argue without the use of profanities. And that does indicate a realization that their arguments are failing in the face of superior logic.

In the end, welfare states can only survive by creating the illusion that higher educational standards are all that are needed for the survival of the welfare states, when in fact such states are completely dependent on the exploitation of the American worker-consumer.

Actually, it seems that Finns are the ones that cannot argue without the use of profanities.

Finnbundit is either paranoid or lying about his nationality?

And that does indicate a realization that their arguments are failing in the face of superior logic.

“Superior logic”? That was a good one.

In the end, welfare states can only survive by creating the illusion that higher educational standards are all that are needed for the survival of the welfare states, when in fact such states are completely dependent on the exploitation of the American worker-consumer.

And the American worker-consumer is in turn dependent on welfare states to provide an educated workforce, as the American educational system is unable to do so. Quid pro quo.

Strange blog. Why is Finland having economic problems when the economy will grow some 3,9% this year?

Somebody commented that a great average education level is the only way how western economies will be able to withstand the competition from China, India, etc. Well, check out this document: http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:HLkQNaz1FFgJ:www.internationaltraderelations.com/Blinder.Offshoring%2520(Foreign%2520Affairs,%2520March-April%25202006).pdf+Offshoring:+The+Next&hl=nl&gl=nl&ct=clnk&cd=8&client=firefox-a
It argues that it is not so much the education level but the amount of personal service that a society can offer. As the service sector is rather poorly developed in Finland because the government has hijacked it, the future of Finland should not be all too good, unliss things change in that respect.

ConclusionStorytellers are essential throughout times. ,