Comments on: Tuomioja spits into the wind, again. http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/03/18/tuomioja-spits-into-the-wind-again/ Politics, current events, culture - From Finland & United States Sat, 11 Feb 2012 21:08:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Anna http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/03/18/tuomioja-spits-into-the-wind-again/comment-page-1/#comment-50526 Anna Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:42:29 +0000 http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/03/18/tuomioja-spits-into-the-wind-again/#comment-50526 Btw, it's starting. http://www.hs.fi/teksti/tuoreet/artikkeli/1135219230523 There was also a story in Uutispäivä Demari about TKK working with the Pentagon. Yep, elections are on their way :) Btw, it’s starting.

http://www.hs.fi/teksti/tuoreet/artikkeli/1135219230523

There was also a story in Uutispäivä Demari about TKK working with the Pentagon.

Yep, elections are on their way :)

]]> By: Tom http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/03/18/tuomioja-spits-into-the-wind-again/comment-page-1/#comment-50450 Tom Mon, 20 Mar 2006 08:50:46 +0000 http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/03/18/tuomioja-spits-into-the-wind-again/#comment-50450 Tuomioja tells that companies should stay more in Finish ownership and Finish representatives should have more influence in the board of corporations in order to secure Finest social interest. And what is he doing? He sells shares out of Finish ownership and criticises Finish board members, asking them to resign. ==> he is crazy and makes unlogical propaganda. If Finish corporations should stay to at least 50% in Finish ownership then the flow of foreign capital is limited. What would UPM, Stora Enso or Nokia be without a lot of foreign capital? If they still would exist they would be less than 10 % of present size. How much less tax revenue Finland would get in such situation? All former East European countries would have economically overtaken Finland. To simplify it: Most Volvo drivers would be Lada- men! How to finance in such situation the welfare system? How far Finland would then be behind Sweden? Is that what Toumenoja and other SDP guys want? rgds Tom Tuomioja tells that companies should stay more in Finish ownership and Finish representatives should have more influence in the board of corporations in order to secure Finest social interest.

And what is he doing? He sells shares out of Finish ownership and criticises Finish board members, asking them to resign.

==> he is crazy and makes unlogical propaganda.

If Finish corporations should stay to at least 50% in Finish ownership then the flow of foreign capital is limited.
What would UPM, Stora Enso or Nokia be without a lot of foreign capital? If they still would exist they would be less than 10 % of present size. How much less tax revenue Finland would get in such situation?

All former East European countries would have economically overtaken Finland.
To simplify it: Most Volvo drivers would be Lada- men! How to finance in such situation the welfare system? How far Finland would then be behind Sweden? Is that what Toumenoja and other SDP guys want?

rgds Tom

]]> By: Anna http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/03/18/tuomioja-spits-into-the-wind-again/comment-page-1/#comment-50429 Anna Sun, 19 Mar 2006 18:27:05 +0000 http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/03/18/tuomioja-spits-into-the-wind-again/#comment-50429 <i>Interesting analysis. But if indeed Tuomioja acts as shield of sorts, it seems to me that he’s also a bit of a loose cannon, mouthing off inanities that have a way of backfiring. Can the SDP rely on him to keep in step when they go forming coalitions? It seems that this swipe against Ahtisaari did no good at all to the party, given SDP’s comfortable positions within corporate boards.</i> How's that? SDP is the biggest party in Finland, and the recent poll gives them a percentage higher than in any other poll since the last elections. I don't think it's backfiring. They don't have to convince you, do they, I mean you're not an SDP voter, nor will you ever be whatever they say. The actual voter basis they have is solid enough, and Tuomioja is mainly considered the humane guy keeping the (much needed) realist Heinäluoma at least appearing leftist. It's a great balance. The dialogue between Ahtisaari and certain other segments of SDP (that would be including Halonen at times) is mainly about NATO membership. It's fun to follow, a little credibility contest within SDP. But again, such dialogues won't really imo have an effect when it comes to the elections. Other interesting stuff happening, it seems the Greens have now been employed by Kokoomus in lapland to ensure the re-election of Vilen. I still don't get what's so special about Vilen that they keep doing this for him, last time it was the Christian Democrats, and I believe they paid rather dearly for that (national level) alliance, losing a couple of seats. Interesting analysis. But if indeed Tuomioja acts as shield of sorts, it seems to me that he’s also a bit of a loose cannon, mouthing off inanities that have a way of backfiring. Can the SDP rely on him to keep in step when they go forming coalitions? It seems that this swipe against Ahtisaari did no good at all to the party, given SDP’s comfortable positions within corporate boards.

How’s that? SDP is the biggest party in Finland, and the recent poll gives them a percentage higher than in any other poll since the last elections. I don’t think it’s backfiring. They don’t have to convince you, do they, I mean you’re not an SDP voter, nor will you ever be whatever they say. The actual voter basis they have is solid enough, and Tuomioja is mainly considered the humane guy keeping the (much needed) realist Heinäluoma at least appearing leftist. It’s a great balance.

The dialogue between Ahtisaari and certain other segments of SDP (that would be including Halonen at times) is mainly about NATO membership. It’s fun to follow, a little credibility contest within SDP. But again, such dialogues won’t really imo have an effect when it comes to the elections.

Other interesting stuff happening, it seems the Greens have now been employed by Kokoomus in lapland to ensure the re-election of Vilen. I still don’t get what’s so special about Vilen that they keep doing this for him, last time it was the Christian Democrats, and I believe they paid rather dearly for that (national level) alliance, losing a couple of seats.

]]> By: Nirva http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/03/18/tuomioja-spits-into-the-wind-again/comment-page-1/#comment-50408 Nirva Sun, 19 Mar 2006 10:30:22 +0000 http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/03/18/tuomioja-spits-into-the-wind-again/#comment-50408 "This site is getting quite tedious." Yes, I can already see a decline in the number of pissed lefties expressing their frustration here... oh wait, no I can't. Phil's blog is just getting more popular. I think it's funny how people ignore the actual issue here, which is Tuomioja's critique of Ahtisaari. How to spin this so that both social democrats, Tuomioja and Ahtisaari would look good? How to make Ahtisaari not look like a greedy bastard and on the other hand, how to make Tuomioja not look like a whiney bitch? “This site is getting quite tedious.”

Yes, I can already see a decline in the number of pissed lefties expressing their frustration here… oh wait, no I can’t. Phil’s blog is just getting more popular.

I think it’s funny how people ignore the actual issue here, which is Tuomioja’s critique of Ahtisaari. How to spin this so that both social democrats, Tuomioja and Ahtisaari would look good? How to make Ahtisaari not look like a greedy bastard and on the other hand, how to make Tuomioja not look like a whiney bitch?

]]> By: sepisp http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/03/18/tuomioja-spits-into-the-wind-again/comment-page-1/#comment-50400 sepisp Sun, 19 Mar 2006 03:32:55 +0000 http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/03/18/tuomioja-spits-into-the-wind-again/#comment-50400 Ahtisaari is an old profiteer and fat cat. No surprises. He's practically so corrupt - I'm not discrediting his world-class political competence - that he's a straw man in an argument. Ahtisaari is an old profiteer and fat cat. No surprises. He’s practically so corrupt – I’m not discrediting his world-class political competence – that he’s a straw man in an argument.

]]> By: Finnpundit http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/03/18/tuomioja-spits-into-the-wind-again/comment-page-1/#comment-50394 Finnpundit Sat, 18 Mar 2006 23:44:09 +0000 http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/03/18/tuomioja-spits-into-the-wind-again/#comment-50394 5. Anna: <i>Tuomioja is like a human shield the Social Democrats use to remind people that they’re a leftist party. Meanwhile the Social Democrats are of course aware of the fact that the Centre is going to lose votes because of their agricultural policy failure, so at the moment it looks like there’s not going to be another punamulta. Therefore these UPM things should be dealt with publically now rather than later, because leftist moralising can’t be the issue anymore next year when they might have to go into government with Kokoomus. Yet of course they still need the votes. I’d put Tuomioja on the stage too.</i> Interesting analysis. But if indeed Tuomioja acts as shield of sorts, it seems to me that he's also a bit of a loose cannon, mouthing off inanities that have a way of backfiring. Can the SDP rely on him to keep in step when they go forming coalitions? It seems that this swipe against Ahtisaari did no good at all to the party, given SDP's comfortable positions within corporate boards. And, in the end, what does Tuomioja think Ahtisaari should do? Resign? Does he really see that as some sort of an effective outcome? 5. Anna: Tuomioja is like a human shield the Social Democrats use to remind people that they’re a leftist party. Meanwhile the Social Democrats are of course aware of the fact that the Centre is going to lose votes because of their agricultural policy failure, so at the moment it looks like there’s not going to be another punamulta. Therefore these UPM things should be dealt with publically now rather than later, because leftist moralising can’t be the issue anymore next year when they might have to go into government with Kokoomus. Yet of course they still need the votes. I’d put Tuomioja on the stage too.

Interesting analysis. But if indeed Tuomioja acts as shield of sorts, it seems to me that he’s also a bit of a loose cannon, mouthing off inanities that have a way of backfiring. Can the SDP rely on him to keep in step when they go forming coalitions? It seems that this swipe against Ahtisaari did no good at all to the party, given SDP’s comfortable positions within corporate boards.

And, in the end, what does Tuomioja think Ahtisaari should do? Resign? Does he really see that as some sort of an effective outcome?

]]> By: Petteri http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/03/18/tuomioja-spits-into-the-wind-again/comment-page-1/#comment-50387 Petteri Sat, 18 Mar 2006 22:52:47 +0000 http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/03/18/tuomioja-spits-into-the-wind-again/#comment-50387 The above drivel is by me and, unfortunately, I forgot to put my name on it. The above drivel is by me and, unfortunately, I forgot to put my name on it.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/03/18/tuomioja-spits-into-the-wind-again/comment-page-1/#comment-50386 Anonymous Sat, 18 Mar 2006 22:50:42 +0000 http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/03/18/tuomioja-spits-into-the-wind-again/#comment-50386 I do agree with the most of the previous comments and doubly so with #9 and #11. Phil, your blog, after associating it with the Finnpundit, has lost almost totally it's entertainment value not to mention the little credibility it used to have. I am quite sure that your diminishing presence is caused by other commitments but, as a chair man of the board, you should do a better job in delegating. We do't mind provocative, different and challengin points of view but this particullar one trick pony is not doing it. In the name of the humanity, I beg of you, let the pony go to greener pastures! I do agree with the most of the previous comments and doubly so with #9 and #11. Phil, your blog, after associating it with the Finnpundit, has lost almost totally it’s entertainment value not to mention the little credibility it used to have. I am quite sure that your diminishing presence is caused by other commitments but, as a chair man of the board, you should do a better job in delegating. We do’t mind provocative, different and challengin points of view but this particullar one trick pony is not doing it. In the name of the humanity, I beg of you, let the pony go to greener pastures!

]]> By: Mr. S http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/03/18/tuomioja-spits-into-the-wind-again/comment-page-1/#comment-50383 Mr. S Sat, 18 Mar 2006 19:46:02 +0000 http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/03/18/tuomioja-spits-into-the-wind-again/#comment-50383 Well, that is problem with many Blogs (dare I say most?). Things need to be condensed into easily digestable black/white or right/left chunks as quickly as possible (so it won't become 'old news', the horror) without too much research into facts or seeing the 'shades of grey'. Well, that is problem with many Blogs (dare I say most?). Things need to be condensed into easily digestable black/white or right/left chunks as quickly as possible (so it won’t become ‘old news’, the horror) without too much research into facts or seeing the ‘shades of grey’.

]]> By: Anton http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/03/18/tuomioja-spits-into-the-wind-again/comment-page-1/#comment-50376 Anton Sat, 18 Mar 2006 18:06:45 +0000 http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/03/18/tuomioja-spits-into-the-wind-again/#comment-50376 Tuomioja sold his stocks for the purchase price. SDP are still a bunch of twats ruining the Finnish economy though. Tuomioja sold his stocks for the purchase price. SDP are still a bunch of twats ruining the Finnish economy though.

]]> By: mjr http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/03/18/tuomioja-spits-into-the-wind-again/comment-page-1/#comment-50374 mjr Sat, 18 Mar 2006 17:20:41 +0000 http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/03/18/tuomioja-spits-into-the-wind-again/#comment-50374 It is tiring to argue against these childish gibes. There actually would also be intellectually distinguished defences of the free market. This labelling of social democrats as communists is not any different from labeling them as social fascists. Not that I would expect either Finnpundit or Phil to catch the reference. Knowledge does not matter, only shallow prejudices. This site is getting quite tedious. It is tiring to argue against these childish gibes. There actually would also be intellectually distinguished defences of the free market. This labelling of social democrats as communists is not any different from labeling them as social fascists. Not that I would expect either Finnpundit or Phil to catch the reference. Knowledge does not matter, only shallow prejudices. This site is getting quite tedious.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/03/18/tuomioja-spits-into-the-wind-again/comment-page-1/#comment-50372 Anonymous Sat, 18 Mar 2006 16:04:11 +0000 http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/03/18/tuomioja-spits-into-the-wind-again/#comment-50372 Phil's typical double standards. In other words, Tuomioja has no right to invest his money. If he does so, it's corruption. If he keeps his UPM stocks, he is corrupted. If he sells them, he is corrupted. If he doesn't invest his money, he's a "stupid commie" and corrupted. That sums up Phil's naive 4-yeard-old's thought process. As someone said, he is completely indoctrinated and blind. Phil’s typical double standards. In other words, Tuomioja has no right to invest his money. If he does so, it’s corruption. If he keeps his UPM stocks, he is corrupted. If he sells them, he is corrupted. If he doesn’t invest his money, he’s a “stupid commie” and corrupted.

That sums up Phil’s naive 4-yeard-old’s thought process. As someone said, he is completely indoctrinated and blind.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/03/18/tuomioja-spits-into-the-wind-again/comment-page-1/#comment-50370 Anonymous Sat, 18 Mar 2006 15:54:37 +0000 http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/03/18/tuomioja-spits-into-the-wind-again/#comment-50370 <i>Why do so many Finnish social democrats sit on the boards of private Finnish corporations, or are employed by banks and other free-market institutions? </i> Yes why? The answer could be read in any economics text book - The Economics for Dummies would probably be the right one in your case. Now, I don't want to spoil it for you completely, so here's just a teaser: the board memebers (now slowly) a r e e l e c t e d. By whom? you ask confused. Is it the little evil state? The Communist Social Democratic Party? Well, let's keep that as a cliffhanger, so that in order to find out the answer you really have to pick up a book (a retangualr thing made of paper). (The entertainment value of FinnPundit is wearing off, don't you agree? It's just not credible anymore; nobody's that stupid in real life. Why don't you try to come up with another, funnier character ... or I may just have stop reading "Phil's blog".) Why do so many Finnish social democrats sit on the boards of private Finnish corporations, or are employed by banks and other free-market institutions?

Yes why? The answer could be read in any economics text book – The Economics for Dummies would probably be the right one in your case. Now, I don’t want to spoil it for you completely, so here’s just a teaser: the board memebers (now slowly) a r e e l e c t e d. By whom? you ask confused. Is it the little evil state? The Communist Social Democratic Party? Well, let’s keep that as a cliffhanger, so that in order to find out the answer you really have to pick up a book (a retangualr thing made of paper).

(The entertainment value of FinnPundit is wearing off, don’t you agree? It’s just not credible anymore; nobody’s that stupid in real life. Why don’t you try to come up with another, funnier character … or I may just have stop reading “Phil’s blog”.)

]]> By: Mikko Sandt http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/03/18/tuomioja-spits-into-the-wind-again/comment-page-1/#comment-50369 Mikko Sandt Sat, 18 Mar 2006 15:37:31 +0000 http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/03/18/tuomioja-spits-into-the-wind-again/#comment-50369 visa79 "<i>Tuomioja = Idiot = SDP</i>" Heretic! You don't get it Finnpundit - commies are known for their greed. Why else would they support redistribution (at least when the money that's being redistributed belongs to someone else)? visa79
“Tuomioja = Idiot = SDP”

Heretic!

You don’t get it Finnpundit – commies are known for their greed. Why else would they support redistribution (at least when the money that’s being redistributed belongs to someone else)?

]]> By: visa79 http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/03/18/tuomioja-spits-into-the-wind-again/comment-page-1/#comment-50367 visa79 Sat, 18 Mar 2006 15:05:37 +0000 http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/03/18/tuomioja-spits-into-the-wind-again/#comment-50367 Tuomioja = Idiot = SDP Tuomioja = Idiot = SDP

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