Comments on: Social Democrats wish to end private schools in Finland

By: GABRIEL CRENTSIL

GABRIEL CRENTSIL — Fri, 29 Sep 2006 11:44:54 +0000

Dear sir/madam,
I want you to give me all the website and e-mail addresses of governement and private Bible schools,colleges and Information Technology schools and colleges in Finland,Denmark,Sweden and Norway.Thank you.
GABRIEL CRENTSIL

By: Abiturus

Abiturus — Sun, 05 Feb 2006 21:10:48 +0000

Looks like many people in here have no clue about what private and public schools are about in Finland. Steiner schools and christian schools are only a small part of the private school. Most private schools are private due to historical reasons (for example Helsingin suomalainen yhteiskoulu, the first coeducational school in Finland) and do not differ from public schools in any way. Besides, at least all lukios (upper secondary schools) have to follow a the national curriculum and e.g. cannot teach anything other than the evolution theory in biology.

Phil is probably right about SDP’s fear for private schools in the sense that they are too elitist. I consider that fear ridiculous since most of the so called “elite schools” in Helsinki are owned and operated by the city or the state.

By: Majava

Majava — Fri, 03 Feb 2006 10:50:08 +0000

Look mightyiguana, I am not denying that right. I’m saying that there’s so much opportunity for people of any religion to do more with their beliefs. Churches arrange all kinds of things. Why then go for the overkill and also make schools like the educational branch of the church? And since I’m in favour of the freedom to establish your own knitting club, I say “then create your school of god”! But not with public funding, oh no!

By: mightyiguana

mightyiguana — Fri, 03 Feb 2006 06:52:34 +0000

It seems you all are denying the right of parents to pass on their values to their children, especially values that you do not like. Seriously why do you care that children from religious households are indoctrinated. I will argue that children from secular households are just as indoctrinated as the religous ones. People feel the need for religious schools simply because they VALUE them. I do not understand why secular people feel the need to stop that. You can argue from your secular perspective that public schools should be enough for them, but religious people see it differently and I think it does not hurt anybody to respect their choices especially when it is not your child. You can argue that the children will be taught creationism. I say that is a moot point, because if all you are afraid about is creationism, well education is a lot more than creationism. Sooner or later, the children will see if for themselves. Besides there are already standards that schools are held to, it is enough for the state to enforce the standards.

By: Mikko Sandt

Mikko Sandt — Thu, 02 Feb 2006 17:56:38 +0000

I happend to write about the same subject today (check my blog) but couldn’t find the original news article (didn’t even remember the channel that aired the news) – then I came here and now I have a source:)

By: Paula

Paula — Thu, 02 Feb 2006 14:54:37 +0000

Thanks, Majava. Not happy about that at all (I don’t like creationism any better than ID), although the name of the school would be good to know.

By: Majava

Majava — Thu, 02 Feb 2006 14:48:02 +0000

Well, I found out some more. It was mentioned in a recent Helsingin Sanomat article about the same topic that the original post on this blog is on. The school is a Christian private school in Helsinki area and an interviewed pupil stated that in biology classes evolution was not being taught and instead they learned about creationsim and basic bible stuff. I thought it was ID, but apparently I was not correct. Neverheless still not a good thing. Biology is biology, Bible = bible two different things.

By: Helsinkian

Helsinkian — Thu, 02 Feb 2006 14:45:48 +0000

Anonymous #59: the “crap” Phil was referring to was not just any old Christian fanatics, that was Fred Phelps supporters. That’s the most hate-spewing kind of “Baptists” and AFAIK they aren’t in friendly relations with other Baptists, let alone with most Christians. There is a certain difference between Christian fanatics and Christian terrorists.

By: Ad Verecundiam

Ad Verecundiam — Thu, 02 Feb 2006 13:55:31 +0000

Great Moments in Blogistan History, #2687:

Anonymous notices the flaw in the Philian time-space-opinion continuum for the first time.

“Huh? Hey, but it’s Thursday now. That was Monday”

By: Paula

Paula — Thu, 02 Feb 2006 13:49:09 +0000

Majava (re:58): I’m surprised and not at all happy to hear about ID in Finnish schools. Thanks for any information/reference you can dig up.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Thu, 02 Feb 2006 13:36:24 +0000

Under “Why Finland is fantastic” Phil says:
“I hope to God I never see this crap [christian fanatics] in FinlandÃ¢â‚¬Â¦”

http://www.finlandforthought.net/2005/02/17/why-finland-is-fantastic-brreason-6666-less-christian-whackos/

And now he is supporting christian schools in Finland?

By: Majava

Majava — Thu, 02 Feb 2006 13:00:09 +0000

Is some Christian school really teaching ID in Finland?
Unfortunately the answer is Yes. It made my girlfriend jump up from her seat when she read it “NOT in my country!” We were both amazed how silently this has been introduced here, while in the US, in spite of their much stronger religious beliefs, it caused outrage and big public debate. I don’t remember where the schools were. Perhaps I can still find out…

By: Paula

Paula — Thu, 02 Feb 2006 11:48:31 +0000

Teaching children intelligent design instead of evolution biology is wrong and should be banned from schools.

Is some Christian school really teaching ID in Finland? Last time I looked, next to no Christians in Finland wanted to have anything to do with it. I’d certainly ban ID, too, but I very much doubt that getting to teach creationism is the big idea of Finnish Christian schools.

Creationism or anything of the sort never was taught to me during religion classes or anywhere else. We went through the story of creation according to the Bible, of course, like the rest of its contents, but no one ever said that’s the scientific truth of it. If you asked the religion teacher, they would tell you that the story was not a literal truth and that wasn’t the point of it at all in any case.

I stand for (non-compulsory) religion classes, or at the very least elämänkatsomustieto classes, at Finnish schools simply because they provide a very important part of all-round education. Looking at how little knowledge or understanding e.g. Americans tend to have of religions other than their own (and in many cases, even their own, even though they consider themselves big believers), I stand for the religion classes all the firmer.

By: Majava

Majava — Thu, 02 Feb 2006 10:50:36 +0000

I typed this already yesterday, but the blog disappeared then. My CPU was ready for that though…

Phil, that’s fine! If anyone wants to start a school then go ahead! But in that case, the people who took the initiative because they did not fully approve of the public system, should also not count on any public funding. I am very much pro freedom of business establishment, but almost as much against subsidies!

aPointOfView, I believe that here, in Finnish society, there are plenty of possibilties and opportunities to do exactly what you said. People do not need to establish schools for that. In fact I think it may increase segregation if the school’s focal point is religion or even language.

By: m

Thu, 02 Feb 2006 08:10:07 +0000

I appreciate the idea of freedom of choice. But I think that in this case the freedom of the child to get irreligious, scientific education is more important than the parents’ right to choose their children’s schools.