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6.1.2006

Welfare state is more vulnerable to the deterioration of the element of Christian commitment

Tags: Uncategorized — Author: @ 12:34 am

Huh..?

The Scandinavian type of welfare state is more vulnerable to the deterioration of the element of Christian commitment than other regimes, because the latter constituted a more significant part of it. The origin of the Northern welfare state does not lie in a particular political philosophy, but derives from the nationalisation of the churches and all their welfare services in the sixteenth century.

[...]Any student of the events surrounding the integration of Finland into the Russian Empire between the time of the Peace of Tilsit (1807, when France allowed Russia to annex Finland from Sweden) and independence (1917), continually encounters legal issues concerning welfare benefits. Did Russia have to take over the Finnish pension obligations from Sweden? Did the Russians have to pay the pensions of the Fins in St. Petersburg and was there no risk that the Russians would start demanding pensions too? Who was to help pay for the failed harvests in the north? What if a Fin who had had a career in St. Petersburg wanted to go to a retirement home in his birthplace? Would the Russians have to pay for that? And would Russian workers not want to have the same welfare services as the Scandinavian churches provided and give the Orthodox church an active role in social reform.

This Christian component, with active state churces, was very strong in the Northern countries until three decades ago. The decline of the Scandinavian model is the result of the decline of the active component of this social model. Those who wish to undermine this Christian component will simply have to accept the weakening of the welfare services.

  • gopha

    So this is saying that if it wasn’t for Christianity, the “welfare state” wouldn’t exist?

    If this argument is correct, perhaps Ireland and the US are economically in better shape than Europe because they have remained more Christian?

    With a thriving billions of dollars a year sex industry and a hundreds of billions of dollars a year defense industry? Christianity has nothing to do with that. There’s not too many real, actual, live by Jesus’ teaching “Christians” in the US anyways.

  • winter

    From a non “Welfare stae” the USA:
    Welcome to Mars express: only a three hour trip

    Evil Americans at it again. Can anyone say “STAR Wreck”

  • http://m-sandt.blogspot.com Mikko Sandt

    Capitalism and liberalism has got absolutely nothing to do with Christianity or Christian mentality. Most American Christians seem to think that Jesus was a right-wing Republican. Maybe they should read the Bible which is actually very pro-Communism (see ACTS and Matthew for example).

  • Tomi

    Who are those “Fins” the writer seems to know so much about?

  • anonyymi pelkuri

    Fins.

    The reason Finland smells funny.

  • Antti (the redneck one)

    I think the welfare state has more to do with the protestantism, than christianity in general. It is true, that many of the public services of today originate from the church. Some services were required by the state, but were implemented by the church. Like the registration of population, which has nothing to do with christianity. Gustav II Adolf wanted to tax everybody and get them into his army so he required church to have register of all members of the congregation.

    Like somebody wrote in HS kuukausiliite, protestants want to have 112, where to call, if they have a heart attack. Catholics call the paramedics company of their cousin…

  • Freeridin’ Franklin

    Maybe they should read the Bible which is actually very pro-Communism (see ACTS and Matthew for example).

    Huh? Read Matthew 25. Jesus wants you to double your portfolio. :)

  • tim73

    Let’s look at the Baltimore crime rates, where Phil came from:

    “The city’s persistent violent-crime problem is an obstacle to Baltimore Mayor Martin O’Malley’s run for governor, but it doesn’t have to be the Achilles’ heel of his campaign, says a veteran of Maryland political races….

    Mr. O’Malley, a Democrat, won the mayor’s race in 1999, campaigning on a pledge to lower the annual homicide totals to 175, but has never achieved the goal. The number of slayings have topped 250 every year he has been in office. As of Friday, the Baltimore Police Department reported 244 homicides, compared with 259 at the same time last year. Police recorded 278 homicides in 2004, up from 270 in 2003. ”

    There were total of 148 murders in Finland last year. So US city with population about 640 000 is having a murder rate about 16 times that of Finland! So which society is failing and badly?! This is like Lada car company giving advices to Ferrari on how to build a sport car…
    so Phil, just keep on telling us how welfare state cannot ever work :) :)

  • winter

    tim73 – Those crime figures apply to ALL US cities RUN BY THE LEFT.

    They say, they know how to manage a government, but looking at those crime rates, one only has to conclude that the left in America is incompetent, but in reality it is their stupid ideas of free welfare and taxing the rich (The producers for you left wing guys)..

  • tim73

    ” Those crime figures apply to ALL US cities RUN BY THE LEFT.”

    Republicans always think that everything crappy in the society must be something to do with leftie liberal commie shit. So how about Houston and Dallas..

    Houston: 256 murders in 2002 (4,6 times of murder rate of Finland)

    and Dallas, oh boy:

    “May 25, 2004

    Once Again, Dallas Has Highest Crime Rate in the Country

    It was no surprise when Dallas once again was given the top honor as the city with the highest crime rate. This is among cities in the United States with a million or more people”

    Surely these cities are not run by red eyed liberal commies…

    BTW, GM and Ford US car sales dropped almost another 10 percent last month while Toyota and Honda sales rose. So once again, American industry really shows us how you can screw things up even more…

  • gopha

    Fun Facts: Houston’s Mayor in 2002 was Lee Brown, a Democrat – a very ineffective Mayor in my personal experience. Dallas’ current Mayor is Laura Miller, a Democrat.

    Enjoy! :D

  • winter

    Tim 73 – “GM and Ford US car sales dropped ” yep. Management and the Union have teamed up to make these companies fold. It is just a matter of time, before their pension and health care programs bring them down.

    Only thing I missed there, was I was betting that the welfare state countries in the EU would fold first for the same reasons. I guess I was wrong. They will take more time.

  • prince of dorkness

    Pretty garbled thinking here. Of course traditional Christian thought is neither Liberal nor Libertarian: a big, interventionist government is all right, as long as it follows the teachings of the Church.
    God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost outrank the market forces (or Mammon).

    And the history is garbled too. Finland was annexed in 1809, not 1807. The pensions of civil servants were important in 1809 because the Czar needed to get the elite official class on his side.
    He did and they ran Finland very efficiently for him up to 1895 or so. To speak of welfare services in the 16th century is anachronistic to say the least.

    Can’t see what crime rates in Texas have to do with this thread, though.

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    I am a Christian that want to share the word of God to any people and in any places..i experience many rejection and suffering but for the Glory of God I’m happy to do this.

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    I am a Christian that want to share the word of God to any people and in any places..i experience many rejection and suffering but for the Glory of God I’m happy to do this.

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