So now all of a sudden a father has a right to his progeny? It isn’t the mother’s right to make all of the decisions concerning their children?

You’re kidding, right?

So now all of a sudden a father has a right to his progeny? It isn’t the mother’s right to make all of the decisions concerning their children?

Under my proposal, couples would decide together on a contract early in the child’s life, probably before the child is even born. The contract would discuss in detail what would happen if the couple split up, moved away from each other. This isn’t what happened in this situation.

This is why I propose such a system, to prevent cases like these where the state fails in their duties. Your system is what is failing this family. Like this guy said on his web site, “I do not blame Tayla´s mother, she does this simply because she can. It is the authorities that allow this, this is where I target my frustration.”

A contract?! Wow, now that is a strange idea.

Why would a woman (who is already pregnant) agree that the child should stay with the father in case they break up, all while they are supposed to be in love and looking forward to the baby’s birth? Especially if the father is from another country?!

Why would a woman (who is already pregnant) agree that the child should stay with the father in case they break up,

Well what happens now, mommy gets the kids, daddy gets the weekends (or some similar arrangment). I suspect the same would happen with individual contracts.

All I’m saying is that I want the family to make these important decisions, not politicians.

The trouble with such a prenatal contract – even more than with prenuptual agreements – is that breakups usually involve circumstances that change after the signature: one of the parents can become mentally ill, or a substance abuser, for instance – or at least allegations of such circumstances can be made.

Lawyers will always be able to find grounds to contest any contract, and it’s back to square one.

The Outi Koski matter was ultimately a fairly simple one: the mother violated a court ruling, and Finnish authorities fulfilled their duties under international law – although they might have acted a with a bit less delay. I can sympathise with Ms. Koski’s emotional turmoil, but the bottom line is, that rules that apply to Algerian fathers should also apply to Finnish mothers.

Under my proposal, couples would decide together on a contract early in the child’s life, probably before the child is even born. The contract would discuss in detail what would happen if the couple split up, moved away from each other. This isn’t what happened in this situation.

Right. This is in contradiction to your earlier statement which was this:

I guess I’m a neo-feminist in that regard, I believe that women should have the ultimately authority over her baby, unless she agrees to have the father involved.

At first you say that mothers shoudl have the ultimate authorities over their babies, then all of a sudden you want the couples to decide on these things together.

Your system is what is failing this family.

My system?

My post-modern feminist system would not have social workers and judges who rid men of their rights to parenthood under the guise of “neo-feminism” or other such BS.

I hope you’re not implying that I’m some f*cking commie.

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Right. This is in contradiction to your earlier statement which was this:

No, it’s not. The woman has ultimate authority the child, unless she gives it up in a contract. And obviously, 99% of the time, the mother will want the father involved in the child’s life and they’ll agree on a contract. …Unless maybe daddy is an abusive drunk or something.

My system?

Do you more or less agree with how these situations are handled now in Finland? Or would you make major changes?

In Koski’s case it was right decision that the father get the children back

Mummy gets the kids and daddy gets the bills.. Happens in every land so what is new. Must suck for the chap though if he wants contact with his kids and the mum dont play ball.

Mummy gets the kids and the daddy gets the bills and nothing else!

Ah, don’t we just love woman’s lib.. Its a joke. Woman’s lib is just another way to screw men, and have some fun doing it.

Any system that does not make BOTH parents equal, and I mean equal everything, is a system set up against men by women libbers.

Naming it the “Tayla Liberation Front” and referring to his ex-wife as the “alienator” is kinda creepy.

Yeah, just a bit.

Through all the bullshit arguments about the rights of mom and dad, the system, the law, the culture etc. The kids are the one’s who end up getting the bad end of the deal in the end. Always has and always will.

Ah, don’t we just love woman’s lib.. Its a joke. Woman’s lib is just another way to screw men, and have some fun doing it.

You should go live in somewhere like Saudi Arabia. They know how to keep those “women libbers” in their place. Do you feel threatened by affirmative action as well?

You should go live in somewhere like Saudi Arabia.

Nah, too liberal.

This is a sad and common situation. I had a friend who had the same relationship with Danish state authorities. I do think that it is likely that officials are categorically biased in a woman’s favor in these matters, especially in countries like Finland that have a high percentage of children born out of wedlock.

Affirmative action though can be wrong if you are forced to employ someone to make up the quota for black lesbians or some such. I know dealing with the U.S. government can be a nightmare (but good if you are a minority group business owner) as they have all sorts of laws to favour you.

Employ on their own merit, not because of what tick boxes they can fulfil.

Affirmative Action means well but has been abused to death.

“Your system is what is failing this family.”

I would like to however point out that the judicial system (to its full extent) is also part of “our system”. (by the way the justice system comes in handy also when someone brokes a *contract*…)

The mother’s sister was right: “you must go to court”

If he *really* had wanted to see his daughter, he should have done it. Anouther court order, Court of Appeal, contact the Finnish police if you like if there are misconducts.

At the end of his web page “Penny drops” he explains he should not have to do it, it costs money…

But seriously, so what? Apparently he’s “nearly bankrupted” himself anyway! And wasted years making these protests, featuring in news articles, even protesting in photographs at different countries, making letters and appeals to everywhere (except the correct Finnish court in this case) and making these web pages (which he says are not even designed to get access with the daughter, or contact with authorities).

It just seems not so wise.

Parental alienation syndrome is the core to these cases but courts do not recognise it. There is a PAS links off the tlf site which I am able to relate too but I’m a mum!!!! With regarding to keep going back to court when court orders are broken this can drag out for years and the child grows up. That is the wasted time just because the parent with care wants it their way or no way and will use every possible means to ensure contact does not happen at all! Courts do not use their powers to enforce these court orders as judgement is based upon ‘in the best interest of the child’ which is the very bit that an alienator parent will abuse for their interest! Its a form of emotional abuse upon the child that the state allows to happen due to its ignorance on parental alienation. Also all family law cases are done behind closed doors and you are not allowed to speak about your own case to anybody except your lawyer!! Not been allowed to see your child for no valid reason is a living breavrement that stays with you until the day if ever you reunite with your child. So the frustration, pain, anger, worry builds up within you as you know that your parenting skills are sound and good. But yet you are not believed, heard, gagged, spoken to and its considered normal that you should automatically shut off your feelings you have as a parent to your child! That is creepy, that is insane cos the courts, authorities, schools, social services, parent with care and their family follow this thinking too!!!!!! Unfortunately to bring about change in thinking and public awareness, protest has to happen to stop this acceptable form of child abuse because when you become a parent, you are a parent for life no matter what happens in that life you are still a parent doing the best you can for your child and you should be respected for that not abused! Its a social problem that exists in many countries but the bottom line issues are the same which to me is a form of bullying and children become pawns as one parent uses them against the other parent. This will continue unless change in thinking happens but like I said change happens through protest!

After seeing couple of this kind of cases I honestly think that Finnish marital-policy needs to be changed. Ofcourse these situations happen only now and then and it ain’t common, but police should be taking responsibility for these kind of situations, since they do for parent’s who both are Finnish too.