I suppose it was their luck that the missus was Finnish.. I dread to think what might have happened if there would have been a similar communication problem with the wife as well!

That’s really appalling.. I mean, it’s good to know that someone cares about the wellbeing of a baby, but I’m sure they could have dealt with the situation better than that. There’s no need to assume someone is a criminal, just because he (or she) doesn’t speak Finnish.

but I’m sure they could have dealt with the situation better than that.

And it starts with that damned neighbour! What happened to just ringin the doorbell and see what’s going on?

What happened to just ringin the doorbell and see what’s going on?

That alternative has been outsourced to the state.

I thought these kind of incidents would take place only in America. Where are the social workers and worried neighbours when there really is a need to take the baby away from his/her parents?

Nowadays even polite complaint to the neighbours is usually regarded as a personal offence and people call the police instead. That’s what happened. Thinking goes: Whatever, it is not MY fault, it’s that goddamn neighbour with no life complaining again.

I thought these kind of incidents would take place only in America.

Why would you think that?

Now, I don’t have any kids (thank God), so I don’t know much but…how could a lot of crying be considered “abuse”? Isn’t that what babies do? …cry all the time? Sometimes they don’t stop for a while.

If this neighbor called the cops and said, “My neighbor’s kid won’t stop crying” – Do they automatically call social services and investigate? Or does there have to be more than just a child crying to get the authorities at your door?

Phil this is exactly what babies do.

And yes consider your self lucky.

Just try studying for your maturity tests (the thing you write to graduate from high school) with a 6 month old baby sister screaming in the next room.

I babysat my nephew who bawled for one hour straight. I mean he screamed his little lungs out, I thought my ears would pop and my head along with it. I have also babysat messy five year-olds and hyperactive three year-olds.

I survived and still want kids of my own.

I won’t even start on how many negative sentiments “I don’t have any kids (thank god)” arises in me. Especially the thank god part. But yes, I understand that having a child cramps your personal liberty and hey, nothing is more important than the liberty to do exactly what you want, when you want it and screw everyone else. Especially some helpless little mustard factory.

Yes, babies cry. It’s what they do until they learn to talk and even after that. Deal with it.

Just try studying for your maturity tests (the thing you write to graduate from high school) with a 6 month old baby sister screaming in the next room.

That’s why I hope I’ll never have to live in an apartment again. The walls in the rivitalos/paritalos seem to be more thick.

I won’t even start on how many negative sentiments “I don’t have any kids (thank god)” arises in me.

My girl and I just aren’t ready for kids yet, maybe (and probably) we will be in the future.

But yes, I understand that having a child cramps your personal liberty and hey, nothing is more important than the liberty to do exactly what you want, when you want it and screw everyone else

Whoa! I didn’t think my “I dont’ want kids” comment would have touched a nerve with you, Anzi. Do you really want to see little Phil’s running around?

“Whoa! I didn’t think my “I dont’ want kids” comment would have touched a nerve with you, Anzi. Do you really want to see little Phil’s running around?”

Dude, what you do with your procreative skills is none of my beeswax.

But yeah, I am touchy when it comes to children. I’ve always been like that, ever since I was a child myself.

If people don’t want kids, then that’s their business. It’s people who don’t want kids and judge people who do want them that get on my nerves. I’m also irritated by people who want kids and judge those who don’t. Isn’t it better that the people who do not like children do not have them?

But what ticks me off the most is the modern comfort-seeking selfish creeps who think that kids make nice accessories but god forbid should they interfere with their personal lifestyle and liberties. Your little “thznk god” touched that particular nerve, I think.
Sorry. Rant over.

“Your little “thznk god” touched that particular nerve, I think.”

And of course I meant “thank god”. Damn this French keyboard!

But what ticks me off the most is the modern comfort-seeking selfish creeps who think that kids make nice accessories but god forbid should they interfere with their personal lifestyle and liberties.

I’d like to find a mother or father who hasn’t complained about their kids taking up their free time.

I hope the MOM screamed her head off.

That’s the real fix here, as the good old social workers need to be embarrassed.

It’s only reasonable to play it safe. If there was a communication problem between the police / social services and the Indian guy, what else could they do? After all, this only took a few hours. If he really had abused the baby, it could have saved his / her life.

Maybe Sudhir is now more motivated to start studying Finnish or English, so he will be able to explain what is going on the next time something like this happens.

BTW, you shouldn’t always trust what you read. It may well be that the story really didn’t go like it was reported.

Maybe Sudhir is now more motivated to start studying Finnish or English, so he will be able to explain what is going on the next time something like this happens.

Why english?

Don’t you integrate better if you speek the native (Finish) language?

You’re right, of course, but I don’t think many foreigners are eager to learn a lot of Finnish unless they plan to stay here for at least a decade. Depending on your occupation, there is little need to learn the language if you don’t want to.

Similar cases often happens in Israel where new immigrants from Russia getting their children kept in hands of social workers for decades. Sometimes by an adequate reason, sometimes not.

This is just typically over-the-top reaction from the Finnish social services and the police to a foreigner: “Let’s show’em we mean business here in Finland!” Meanwhile, there are so many genuinely abused and abandoned children in Finland who don’t get the help they need because a) neighbours are too ignorant or unsure of what to do, or b) the social workers haven’t accumulated the necessary evidence to give rise to a police investigation. I’m appalled.

“I’d like to find a mother or father who hasn’t complained about their kids taking up their free time.”

As would I.
What I meant was parents who put their free time and personal lives above everythng else, their children included.

My wife happens to be exactly the kind of social worker who is in charge of these “emeregency removals” (huostaanotto), not in Helsinki, though.

When I told her about this case she pointed out that taking the baby from the father (or mother) is often the lesser evil, if it’s difficult to establish exactly what had been going on. Nobody, after all, wants to leave a baby in potential danger.

The strange thing is, in her opinion, that the father was taken to the police station. The “right” thing to do would have been to let him stay home so he could have tried to get hold of the mother. The fact that the police took the father suggests that there was a major communication breakdown or other problems. The police, after all, don’t want to take people into custody unless they feel it’s necessary – if not for any other reason, because it means more work (my words, not my wife’s; she thinks very highly of the policemen she has coworked with in these kinds of situations).

Funnily enough, my wife at first thought we were talking about a gender issue. A crying baby “had to be” taken away because he was found with the father rather than mother … And the social workers in Helsinki have this reputation nowadays of being “man haters”. The sad fact, though, is that up to 70% of killed babies are killed by mothers.

Anyway, because authorities are forbidden by the law talk about these things publicly, we will never hear the the other side of the story … Not that I would suggest that hearing it would change the picture completely. Obviously the situation was not handled well.

Both the writers of No. 4 and No. 16 are examples of some Finns who simply cannot accept that some aspects of Finnish society are racist. By not acknowledging them, the racist aspects of Finnish society will continue.

No. 4 said: “I thought that these problems only happen in America…”
Instead of acknowledging the harm and maltreatment done to the Indian chap in Finland by Finnish citizens who represent Finnish institutions, No. 4 just gives a cheap taistolaiset attack on America to deflect the criticism upon Finland.

No. 16 said: “If there was a communications problem…”

No. 16, he looks for other causes for the injustice than racism (That it was only a simple communications problem caused by the Indian’s guy refusal to learn Finnish), and refuses to accept criticism for the probable real root cause of the problem. Does 16 really believe that some racist aspects did not cause the events to occur?

Why is it so hard for some Finns to face up to some problems, and to accept any criticism?

Why do some Finns always attack others (in this case, America, and the Indian victim, himself) than seek ways to correct their own problems?

I have read about identical incidents taking place in Denmark. The threshold for the police to take someone to their custody for questioning is very low when children are involved. Why? Because of celebrated cases when they did not act in that manner.

Well, at least they didn’t use their stun guns.

Peter, Hans there answered your criticism.

I have no way of knowing what goes inside the heads of those policemen. I wasn’t there, and neither were you. Yes, there is racism in Finland, but that doesn’t change the fact that if the baby’s safety is in doubt, the police intervention is justified.

What does the Indian guy’s “race” have to do with all this? Are you saying that he should be treated differently?

Suomen Mies,

“What does the Indian guy’s race have to do with all this?”

Of course, I wasn’t there, but I suspect that the answer is likely to have been “at least alot”.

If it was purely a Finnish household, I doubt that the situation would have ended up similarly.

I appreciate the low tolerance of child abuse, but what about a similar level of low intolerance of racial intolerance?

Again, with Han’s statement, we see a referral to non-Finnish examples to deflect blame: His remarks about Denmark and stun guns are once again finger pointing exercises to outside Finland.

“What happened to just ringin the doorbell and see what’s going on?”

LOL….. that would involve too much awkward social contact with another human being…definitely a no no.

“What does the Indian guy’s race have to do with all this?”

Nothing to do with race, everything to do with language. Which, in this case is connected to race. Connect the dots, you might be suprised!

“BigUnit”, your comment was not a smart one. I must tell you this, because, it appears, making that very conclusion is out of your league.

Spend a good year or two thinking, and you just might get it.

“What happened to just ringin the doorbell and see what’s going on?”

If you suspect someone is crazy enough to abuse his own baby, it might not be a very good idea to go tell him what to do. It’s easy for a big, muscular guy like myself to do that, but perhaps the neighbour was an old lady, who thought it would be best to call the police?

“It’s easy for a big, muscular guy like myself to do that”

Classic internet syndrome. By the way, I drive a Lamborghini Murcielago, earn 750,000€ per year, Live in a 400 m2 mansion in Kaunianen. Along with being 190cm, and 95 ripped kg of Man Flesh.

I understand it’s hard for you lazy people to understand that with relatively little exercise you would also become muscular. Try it.

I know from experience that people listen to your complaints more carefully when you are bigger…

@Suomen mies
you actually made a valid point about the risks people might face in interfering with their neighbours, but you mess it up with this bodybuilder crap. A 12-gauge isn’t impressed by any amount of muscle.

“I know from experience that people listen to your complaints more carefully when you are bigger..”

I think that suomenmies will admit that with tact and intelligence you can reach a lot better results than with size.

Size being an issue in ‘complaints being listened to when you are bigger’ reveals a passive aggresive attitude probably typical for his reserved behaviour in real life (I preseume), combined with a very ‘masculine’ atttude. How sweet.

But why assume a potential physical aggressive confrontation into where one is simply concerned about the well being of a child?

In my opinion the the ONLY sensible thing to do is go and ring the doorbell. If you were really concerned about someone torturing a baby, would you really be willing to wait the extra time it takes for the police to get there?

And did the neighbour know the nationality of the father in beforehand and was it taken into account when deciding to call the police?

What ever happened to common sense when living in a civilized community?

Qwerty, as I already explained, not everyone is brave or has the means to defend himself / herself. Do you think that a brute who abuses his own baby would listen to a geek, no matter how well grounded his arguments were? You obviously haven’t seen the world yet. You’ll learn.

Prince of dorkness: yes, muscles don’t help if your neighbour has a gun. That’s another reason to call the cops.

However, the chances of getting shot are very slim.

Just taking the baby away from the guy and giving an official paper explaining why and how to contact the authorities who have the baby in custody would have been enough. The fact that they also took him to the police station was uncalled for and downright racist.

I understand it’s hard for you lazy people to understand that with relatively little exercise you would also become muscular. Try it.

With zero exercise, actually. Just shoot some steroids.

Now, without pharmaceutical assistance, you’ll need four hours at the gym every day for at least a year to get any visible results. I have better things to do.