They propably will, as long as the buyer isn’t from mainland Finland.

If I was a Finn, I would say to the Alanders, bugger off.

As I understand, they do not pay Finnish taxes, they do not have any military obligations, they have very tight restrictions against mainland Finns from buying property there (although they can buy all of downtown Helsinki if they so please), and they generally do not like Finnish speaking Finns.

Meanwhile, they receive (again, I may be wrong) substantial inflow of governmental aid and expenditures from the mainland, can still be a port of call for ships plying the alcohol cruises, can sell their own stamps, and now this internet thing.

Talk about freeloaders.

They propably will, as long as the buyer isn’t from mainland Finland.

Yeah, the order form will be offered in Swedish, Norwegian, Danish, and English.

If I was a Finn, I would say to the Alanders, bugger off.

Agreed. If they want their independence, I say give it to them.

“If they want their independence, I say give it to them.”

Yeah, but that would stop the aid they’re getting, so most of them don’t want it.

If they were independent, I’m sure Finns attitudes towards them would be much more positive, and maybe even vice versa.

Aland, SFP and swedish in finnish society is a shush-shush -topic so please delete this post.

As far as I know they receive about as much aid as they give in taxes and such, so that’s not really a problem. Some of them can be a bit annoying sometimes though, but so can people from Pohjanmaa as well…

Knowing some people from these islands, I’m not at all sure that it’s true that you can say they “don’t like Finnish-speaking Finns”. Some Finns just sometimes display a similar arrogant attitude toward them as toward the Estonians.

Why do you guys want to wipe out everything that is different? Why do the people of Puerto Rico prefer their current status? Are they also freeloaders who shouldn’t be allowed to enjoy the status they prefer to have? I got news for you, there are plenty of freeloaders in this world and singling out one group is essentially a good idea if we want to forget our own freeloading, whatever type that may be.

Ã…land Islands got their current status because Finland didn’t want to let go of the islands. The solution was designed to please all parties and now that the islanders feel pleased, mainland Finns feel it’s wrong – I guess nothing nags people around here more than your neighbor being pleased with life.

Yes, the islanders don’t have to do military service. On the other hand, they don’t have independence. It’s a bargain everybody can ask if you want your nation to choose. We Finns could consider for example if we would prefer instead of independence a status as an autonomous territory within the US. Somebody else would take care of our security policy and we would be a little bit less visible in the international arena.

I know the situation of Ã…land doesn’t sound like an arrangement a rational mind of today would come up with. Historical circumstances have brought forth the existence of such a nation in that very place. It’s comparable to the state of Israel, a good solution to a tricky situation that may not work as a model of every single territory in the world but is necessary where it is.

I think it is an accident of history where each one of us is born. That’s why my attitude toward any inhabitant of Ã…land Islands or any other territory has nothing to do with whether that nation’s status is autonomous or independent. Once an arrangement like that is in place, it is tough to unravel. Finland, however, managed to switch from an autonomous nation within Russia to an independent nation.

To name a similar island nation, there is a slight possibility of independence for the Faeroe Islands in the near future but that is a very divisive issue there. I feel sympathy both toward those who want Faeroe independence and toward those who favor the union with Denmark. Both sides have valid and important arguments and want what they think is best for their nation. As far as Ã…land is concerned, the independence people are such a small minority that I doubt the issue will be materialize at all there.

Nations are like people, each one different from the other. Finns may not like the status of Ã…land but creating the current situation has been the preferred solution from the Finnish point of view. Ã…landers came to like it and accept it with time. Now they’re even proud of it and think that maybe areas like Kosovo or other crisis spots could see their way as a possible model to solve unsoluble territorial disputes.

The idea that Ã…landers don’t pay any taxes is of course a load of bull. You hear it now and then; apparently some masochistic Finns simply *want* to believe it, no matter how many times it’s debunked. If you want to talk freeriding (taxwise) areas in Finland, I would recommend Lappi or Kainuu…

The demilitarization of the Ã…land islands is an international agreement from 1856 (the Paris treaty), and was confirmed in the Ã…land treaty in 1921.

Sure, they pay taxes, but Finland’s goverment pays 0,45% to Aland of all revenues it gets.

That’s quite a lot, when one considers that Aland population is 0,005% of Finland’s total.

0,5%

And for those who don’t know, the Swedish ?Å’ is pronounced like a mix between the Hebrew throat sound, and the Central African “click-click” sound.”

The letter is actually called “the swedish O” and it’s pronounced just like “O”. On the other hand, the swedes pronounce “O” like we finns pronounce “U”. The word “bror” (brother), for example, is pronounced [brur], but “Ã…land” is pronounced [Oland].

“As far as I know they receive about as much aid as they give in taxes and such, so that’s not really a problem.”

Not true. Ã…land takes a lot more than it gives. That is a fact. You can look it up if you like. I don’t have the energy at the moment. =)

By the way, even the European Union has noticed that the language situation in Ã…land is discriminatory against the finnish speakers. For example, there have been numerous occasions where finnish speakers have had some problems with getting education in finnish for their children.

It’s quite ironic actually: this small minority (swedish speakers) of less than 5 % of the population has achieved a situation where the majority of people have to learn their language and they even get to discriminate against this majority. I don’t know if there’s a similar situation anywhere on this planet where such a small minority has so much power over the majority.

And the swedish speakers in Finland note the same discrimination if you are outside of Ring 3 Grankulla snobs don’t count. They thnk they are better than everyone. Their sh1t doesn’t stink.. they send the smells to Vantaa.

So, Ã…land get 0,45% of the tax revenues, and the Ã…land population is 0,5%. What’s the problem, then?

One possible solution is, indeed, to let Ã…land take care of their own taxation, and to independently use their tax money how they see fit. But I’m sure all the Finnish Bobrikov wannabees would scream bloody murder for that, too.

i say set them free the wannabe swedes look down on all things finnish but yet they rely on finn handouts. they want to be swedes lets let them be swedes see how sweden treats them,
and we will see how long it takes for them to claim to the swede government that they are a finnish minority group and need financial support.

Erik, it’s not as simple as 1+1=2.

“Tämä määräraha on 0,45 prosenttia valtion tilinpäätöksen tuloista lukuun ottamatta valtion lainoja.

So, no matter what the public expenditure is, they get 0,45% of government incomes.

Some interesting facts here. Seems like the system works reasonably enough, for now. Ã…land, with 0.5% of the population generates 0.75% of the Finnish GNP, and is hardly dependant on “Finn handouts”.

A few quotes for Anonymous at 9.49 pm:

“Pitkällä aikavälillä tulojen ja menojen välillä vallitsee teoreettinen tasopaino. Koska maakunnan saaman tasoituksen määrä vaihtelee valtion tulojen mukaan, merkitsee tämän pitkällä aikavälillä maakunnan menojen muuttamista valtion menojen kehityksen mukaan.”

“Tasoitusmäärän sitominen valtion tuloihin eikä menoihin ei muuta sitä seikkaa, että Ahvenanmaan maakunnan on noudatettava vastaava pidättyvyyttä menotaloudessaan kuin valtakunnankin.”

It’s quite ironic actually: this small minority (swedish speakers) of less than 5 % of the population has achieved a situation where the majority of people have to…

Oh god, not this again… I mean seriously, don’t you guys ever do anything else than sit around and wait for a moment when somebody uses the magic word Swedish in context of language?

Have you ever thought, that just because the Swedish-speaking minority on the mainland speak the same language as the majority of people in Ã…land doesn’t mean that they are just one generic bunch of people, who share same kinds of problems and therefore also have the same interests?

Ã…land is an autonomous part of Finland, and that itself is enough to anger certain people who are always more than happy to thow out any kinds of halfthruts or urban legends when it comes to Ã…land. Just like that claim that people in Ã…land wouldn’t have to pay taxes.

The same people also seem to have a grudge against the fact that there is a Swedish-speaking minority in this country. Just read some of the comments about how the Swedish-speakers think that they are somehow better people and so on and so on… Then when you mix in the already hated Ã…land issue, you can start an endless monologue on how wrong that all is, and poor us, blah blah blah.

Just as the urban legend about the turkish pizzeria owner who used to spike up his pizzas with bodily fluids or all black people are at least suspicious, these kinds of attitudes are based on something else than facts. And I for one am sick and tired of always hearing them.

Why is it that you can’t simply look at how things really are without all those prejudices and then start a discussion about the things that need fixing? Now there are probably several issues between mainland Finland and the government of the Ã…land islands that could be done in a smarter way and there are certain stupid manners and stubborn people on both sides. That’s life.

Are we stil so unsecure in who we are that we can’t talk about issues such as Ã…land or the status of the Swedish language in Finland without always ending up in these mindless debates that do not lead anywhere? They don’t pay taxes. I mean really, come on!

Finnish should be the only nationally official language as it is the only language really spoken nation-wide. Individual municipalities can choose their official languages according to their population.

“They propably will, as long as the buyer isn’t from mainland Finland.”

At least the only company I know from Ã…land (PAF) has served mainland customers with great enthusiasm and even in Finnish. They even got compliments from the Finnish Supreme Court for that! =)

“Tarkastelujakson aikana on käynyt ilmi, että Ahvenanmaa on ollut nettosaaja ja että valtion Ahvenanmaahan liittyvät menot ovat olleet 100?200 miljoonaa markkaa valtion Ahvenanmaalta saamia verotuloja suuremmat.”

“Jos lasketaan yhteen valtion budjetista maksettavat elinkeinotuet ja EU:n maksamat tuet, Ahvenanmaalla maksettavat elinkeinotuet ovat yli puolet korkeampia kuin muualla Suomessa maksettavat tuet keskimäärin.”

“an endless monologue”

Joonas, talking about an endless monologue…

oh come on!!!

they sell you cheap alcohol, what else can you ask for?

“”Just read some of the comments about how the Swedish-speakers think that they are somehow better people and so on and so on? Then when you mix in the already hated Ã…land issue, you can start an endless monologue on how wrong that all is, and poor us, blah blah blah.”"

As a Finnish-Swedish I always find this sort of stuff hilarious, that the “Real Finns” think “we” somewhow think of ourselfs as better people. It’s just a language, can’t we all just get along?

“”Finnish should be the only nationally official language as it is the only language really spoken nation-wide. Individual municipalities can choose their off.icial languages according to their population.”"

Well the people who founded this country and wrote the constitution would disagree with you.”The greatest Finn of all time” Mannerheim would disagree with you.

I see bilingualism as an asset, it’s a shame more people don’t.

Anonymous: Joonas, talking about an endless monologue?

Anonymous, talking about adding something valuable or useful to the dialogue…

Anton: As a Finnish-Swedish I always find this sort of stuff hilarious, that the “Real Finns” think “we” somewhow think of ourselfs as better people. It’s just a language, can’t we all just get along?

Yeah, it would be interesting to know why some of us Finns still seem to love spreading those age-old stereotypes. Maybe it’s just a simple way of trying to get acceptance among certain people – you know, like making fun of the fat kid on the playground so that the other ones wont laugh at your glasses or somethin?

Not something you would expect to keep going on in todays world where borders, nationalities, race, sexual preferences etc. are fast loosing ground as dividers.

This was about Ã…land, why did it turn into discussion about bilingualism.
And talking about Ã…land and bilingualism in same thread is somewhat ridiculous.

Ha ha ha… Man… What is it about Swedish that gets people’s goats? Minorities are usually a cultural bounty, not a bane, you nimrods. Swedish is a nice language. Knowing one more of those never killed anyone. Geez… How can it be so hard to tolerate a bunch of white people that speak a different language? I really feel for the dermapigmentally challenged in this country now.

And Ã…landers hopefully realize how lucky they were back in the day. The alternate reality stares them in the face in the form of Gotland…

I would like to see the position of Finnish language improved, both there AND in Sweden:-)