I remember I did those Pisa tests too. I had about as much motivation as Phil did, and I didnt get to know the results either. I scrambled the answers fast, and that was it.

If everyone in the world did the same way, the test does reflect what you know – because you probaply enter the right answer if you dont have to use that much brainpower.

Its like seeing which car goes fastest on gear 2.

My friend did a week in a elementary school 9th grade (15-16yrs).
He pulled a test where asked names of five people
President of USA
President of Russia
PM of Finland
Pope
Minister of treasury of Finland

None got even four points – and this score DID matter.

I don’t think it means American students aren’t prepared for the global economy. Students that score really high on these tests tend to be the ones who go into the Arts and Humanities, Education, or academic research, not business, and the ones who do go into business tend to be the slackers and average-score folks (based on what’s becoming of the people I graduated college with) who are already making a nice fat salary and doing just great in the global economy.

When it comes to business, I don’t think high intelligence or academic ambition have much to do with it. It only takes a few smart people, and an army of people willing to screw people for money.

I don’t think it’s much different here. I’d say that the pressure to succeed is far greater in east-Asia than in western Europe or the US.

This “not stupid, just lazy” is b.s. It’s like saying, “I can, but I won’t”. They really are stupid. Stupid, because they are lazy.

Btw, how much being lazy helps in global competition?

But they are Americans! GOD chosen people (at the moment), reality does not bite their collective asses just yet. Last time it was the Germans who were the terminal fools at that time.

One way to look current American ongoing madness is to check what kind of jobs they are creating:

“The public heard that 207,000 jobs were created in July….

Of the new jobs, 26,000 (about 13%) are tax-supported government jobs. That leaves 181,000 private sector jobs. Of these private sector jobs, 177,000, or 98%, are in the domestic service sector.

Here is the breakdown of the major categories:

??¢ 30,000 food servers and bar tenders;
??¢ 28,000 health care and social assistance:
??¢ 12,000 real estate;
??¢ 6,000 credit intermediation;
??¢ 8,000 transit and ground passenger transportation;
??¢ 50,000 retail trade; and
??¢ 8,000 wholesale trade.

Not a single one of these jobs produces a tradable good or service that can be exported or serve as an import substitute to help reduce the massive and growing US trade deficit. The US economy is employing people to sell things, to move people around, and to serve them fast food and alcoholic beverages. The items may have an American brand name, but they are mainly made off shore. For example, 70% of Wal-Mart???s goods are made in China.”

http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts08092005.html

We tried that in Finland in late 80′s (service economy, selling houses to each other) and still some of us are paying for those mistakes.

But then. what motivates students here in finland? they have pretty good results.

“We tried that in Finland in late 80???s (service economy, selling houses to each other) and still some of us are paying for those mistakes.”

Service economy at 80′s? BS.

Service economy at 80???s? BS.
A casino is a kind of service.

This “not stupid, just lazy” is b.s. It’s like saying, “I can, but I won’t”. They really are stupid. Stupid, because they are lazy.

That’s stupid ridiculous. I was so bogged down with real tests, classwork, and homework – I just didn’t want to put my energy towards something that meant absolutely nothing to me. The students aren’t to blame for this either, the teachers and administration gave no incentitive towards these tests – plus the federal government shouldn’t be wasting our times with this crap anyways, the more the federal government has gotten involved in America’s schools, the worse they’ve become.

Quoting Tiedemies: “This ???not stupid, just lazy?? is b.s. It???s like saying, ???I can, but I won???t”. They really are stupid. Stupid, because they are lazy.”

I disagree. I also had a few of these national mathematics tests (as far as I recall, at the 9:th grade of primary school) and PISA tests (in high school) in 1990s and after we were told those wouldn’t affect our grades, but were still not voluntary, many left the class as early as they could (after 30 minutes or so). So did I, because I had more important and personal interests to attend.

My opinion was already as a teenager that I shouldn’t waste my resources too much on something that doesn’t personally benefit me. Teachers argued these were for “common good of Finnish education”, but I was not motivated by that, as I was just there for a while.

If you really are a scientist (tiedemies), I can understand your attitude is different. Being a scientist you’re by default working for the benefit of some community, not just for your personal well-being and wealth. I can’t understand that kind of work, but people are different.

I doubt that “Tiede” mies was reacting to the notion that motivation might play a role. Based on his earlier comments, his reaction was a blanket slur on Americans in general, since he’s an anti-American bigot.

and you are a rober baron who has no respect for anything

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