Funerals in Finland - A Kodak moment
Ever looked through a Finnish photo album? It’s an emotional rollercoaster. First off is young Erno’s christening, then little Lassi’s birthday party, then big Juha’s wedding…then there’s Mom laying in the casket at her wake…then vacationing in the Canary Islands, then a Midsummer BBQ… - so what’s with bringing the camera to a funeral? I don’t know how people would react if you whipped out the digicam at an American funeral, cause it’s never happened, it’s unthinkable.
I’ve embraced and thoroughly enjoyed the vast majority Finnish traditions, although photos of the funeral is something I don’t quite “get”. My German buddy and I were trying to figure out how photos at funeral became tradition in Finland. He figures that Finns feel death is just another important aspect of life, and should be kinda “celebrated” as well as mourned (…or something like that). My ridiculous theory is that Finns never taught themselves any camera etiquette - for fear of embarrasement, no one ever spoke up and said, “Hey, maybe taking pictures at a funeral isn’t cool.”
So tell me, why do Finns take pictures at a funeral? How do you feel when you flip through the family photo album and see Dad’s funeral? Is this a tradition throughout all of Finland?
Yes, it is. And I think your theory is correct. I have also always wondered why photographing at funerals is done. Funerals are depressing events. I have lost two grandmothers during the past 3.5 years. Both funerals were in large part sheer torture for me. I have no desire to look at the photographs and remnisce the atmosphere again.
Comment by Markku — Wed, Jun 29th, 2005 @ 1:10 pm
Its an old tradition. A funeral would be one of the “special occasions” a professional photographer would be invited to. Its more of a document of the moment. Death is a part of the cycle of life.
1929 http://yhdistykset.etela-karjala.fi/lssty/artikkelit/holma/i/arkku1.jpg
1931
http://www.kauhajoki.fi/pukkila/historia/kuvat/sisalto/A1hautajaiset.jpg
Comment by Hank W. — Wed, Jun 29th, 2005 @ 1:14 pm
Its an old tradition. A funeral would be one of the ???special occasions?? a professional photographer would be invited to.
I can see how back in the day, funerals were one of the few times the whole extended family and friends and neighbors would get together all in one place…all dressed up in their ties and dresses - so a picture would be nice. But those times haev changed.
But why do you think Finland still holds onto this tradition and Americans/Germans/others do not?
Comment by Phil — Wed, Jun 29th, 2005 @ 1:24 pm
I too, have lost some relatives in the last few years. I never gave this thing much thought, but now that you mention it, it is kind of creepy.
My grandfather died in 1988. One of the things I most remember about his funeral was that there was some guy videotaping the event. I haven’t seen the tape, except right after the funeral, after we went back to his house, and watched it. Most funerals (as far as I can tell) are clesed casket, so it’s not that creepy. Watching it after such a long time might actually be a sobering experience. Looking at pictures from funerals doesn’t make me feel bad, rather it brings memories of how people remembered.
Death is something that eventually happens to all of us. I don’t think living in denial serves any purpose in the matter. I don’t know if it is something to actually celebrate, though.
Comment by Tiedemies — Wed, Jun 29th, 2005 @ 1:31 pm
Welcome Finland. There might be many things different. I cannot see what is problem with photographing in funeral?
Comment by Sakke — Wed, Jun 29th, 2005 @ 1:44 pm
I too, have lost some relatives in the last few years. I never gave this thing much thought, but now that you mention it, it is kind of creepy.
My grandfather died in 1988. One of the things I most remember about his funeral was that there was some guy videotaping the event. I haven’t seen the tape, except right after the funeral, after we went back to his house, and watched it. Most funerals (as far as I can tell) are clesed casket, so it’s not that creepy. Watching it after such a long time might actually be a sobering experience. Looking at pictures from funerals doesn’t make me feel bad, rather it brings memories of how people remembered.
Death is something that eventually happens to all of us. I don’t think living in denial serves any purpose in the matter. I don’t know if it is something to actually celebrate, though.
Comment by Tiedemies — Wed, Jun 29th, 2005 @ 1:53 pm
I can’t understand your question. :-/
Comment by Tekno-Kekko — Wed, Jun 29th, 2005 @ 2:02 pm
Tiedemies:
“Death is something that eventually happens to all of us.”
Not if we’re saved by singularity first (analogy: “saved by the bell”, heh).
“I don???t think living in denial serves any purpose in the matter. I don???t know if it is something to actually celebrate, though.”
In death, a person ceases to exist. His/her consciousness, memories and identity are lost forever. All that is left are the memories of other people of him/her and documents of his/her interactions with the world. The purpose of a funeral is to honor the memory of the deceiced loved one, and, through a ritual of passage, let the reality of the loss really sink in.
The reality of death, IMHO, totally sucks. It should be the first priority of all technological efforts to ensure our survival both collectively and individually.
Comment by Markku — Wed, Jun 29th, 2005 @ 2:02 pm
I never realised taking photos at a funeral was abnormal? Must be the Finn in me
Maybe I have more Finnish tradition than I realised.
Comment by australialaiset — Wed, Jun 29th, 2005 @ 2:06 pm
I’m a Finn and I never understood, who wants those pics taken of funerals. I don’t want them. Actually, it’s quite annoying if you’re grieving and someone takes a picture of you!
Comment by M — Wed, Jun 29th, 2005 @ 2:15 pm
If I may add: nobody, ever, anywhere, has even hinted to me that memorial photos would be inappropriate, and I am soon 40 years old. Is there more secret information like this I have still not heard of during my life?
Probably there is.
But anyway, memorial services are one of those occasions where the whole family, including cousins and distant cousins - depends how closed or open memorial service one wishes to organise - can still meet. That kind of occasions don’t take place too often in a busy modern world.
Comment by Tekno-Kekko — Wed, Jun 29th, 2005 @ 2:27 pm
Jesus Christ! “That kind of occasions don???t take place too often in a busy modern world.” In this modern, busy world we have more free time than ever, work less hours than our ancestors and transportation and communication is way, way more fast and easy than in the days of Hank’s old pictures. And still it takes a person to die to have to family come together. I think it’s more accurate if you’d have said that families are less close in this busy, modern world.
Comment by Majava — Wed, Jun 29th, 2005 @ 2:43 pm
It is well known, that the difference between finnish weddings and funerals is that the funerals have only one drunk less. So if you can take photos in weddings, you can take photos in funerals as well.
Yes, I think it is just another family occasion and it must be due to some common mindset between the finns and the japanese, that important occasions must be photographed. There is also some kind of “etiquette of photography” which is supposed to make a difference between a press conference and weddings/funerals
Comment by antti (the red neck one) — Wed, Jun 29th, 2005 @ 2:48 pm
I’ve been here long enough to sadly go to two funerals, and being a foreigner I found the photos and videoing (by the deceased’s brother) very very weird. In that case I thought it might have just been the guy concerned - he is rather odd - so its interesting to hear that it is relatively common.
Antti’s comment about the only difference between a wedding and funeral is also interesting, because at both of the funerals I’ve been to there was no drinking involved. In fact the one “wake” (although it wasn’t much of a wake in the way I understand it) was in a church hall in Jakom?¤ki where the choice of drink was water or milk!
A vaguely related aside: my Russian colleague tells me that in Russia they say that “a Russian funeral is more fun than a Finnish wedding”!
Comment by Toby — Wed, Jun 29th, 2005 @ 3:28 pm
Russian funerals are very absurd, with bad orchestra music involved, and all the guests are totally drunk at the end of the ceremony, at home. Then everybody except close relatives forgets about the cause of celebration after some glasses of vodka.
The most smart and friendly for relatives funeral ceremony is a Jewish. It’s doesn’t take too much time (about a few hours, the goal is to do it as fast as possible), and thus less traumatic for close ones.
Comment by Iguana — Wed, Jun 29th, 2005 @ 3:56 pm
I guess people want to recollect how the casket and flowers looked like. And more importantly, have one more piece of concrete evidence that the person is really gone.
I have never considered funeral photos inappropriate, though I don’t especially like them either.
Comment by Ruupert — Wed, Jun 29th, 2005 @ 4:11 pm
Yes, a funeral is an important occasion. I think the pictures are often taken for the closest relatives of the deceased. I don’t think they are as commonly shown among other relatives and friends as wedding photos but I guess it all depends on the family.
When my Grandpa died, Grandma gave me a photo of Grandpa’s grave as a memento from the funeral. You know, I would rather have expected an old photo of my Grandpa but I still have that grave photo. So Americans have a problem with funeral pictures but there surely can’t be a problem with photographing gravestones? Well, Grandma is from Southern Karelia, and people are a bit more morbid there than here. The view of death as a normal part of life is often understood as typically Karelian.
I also remember the funeral of my Grandma’s stepmother ten years ago in Virolahti. That’s the only open casket funeral I’ve ever been to. But we Finns generally find open caskets creepy and would probably find funeral photographs creepy if open caskets were more commonly involved. So those who wanted had the choice of seeing the open casket right before the beginning of the funeral; when the casket was brought forth to the church the event had already transformed to a closed casket funeral. I think I was the only one apart from one of the elderly children of the deceased who chose not to take a look at the open casket.
I think photographing dead people was very common in many countries when cameras first were invented; these days such photos are used as shock effects in films such as The Others. I don’t think the photos of Saddam’s dead sons had been that hotly debated if the cultural issues related to displaying photographs of corpses hadn’t been that central to the whole debate.
Comment by Helsinkian — Wed, Jun 29th, 2005 @ 4:32 pm
My Karelian Grandma actually likes to talk about her own funeral plans. I don’t think she’s thrown a big party since Grandpa’s funeral… I sure hope I’ll have other things to do if I ever live to be an octogenarian. Yet I’m glad she has something to think about to keep her sharp and in good spirits. My other Grandma from Southwestern Finland thinks funerals are such a drag on the loved ones that she hopes we’d respect her wishes and skip the funeral bit altogether when she dies.
Comment by Helsinkian — Wed, Jun 29th, 2005 @ 4:52 pm
Open casket funerals is an orthodox tradition and for that reason quite common among the karelians. The casket is open in the beginning of the ceremony and after the priest is over with the final rituals, relatives close it.
The drinking habits I referred to in my previous comment is actually an age old swedish joke. It depends on the bunch of people you are celebrating with. Back home in the “redneck land” there is usually some pontikka by some cousin’s cousin distant relative available around the corner. I remember one wedding with an announcement:”There is a phone call outside for all men, except the Reverend”
Comment by antti (the red neck one) — Wed, Jun 29th, 2005 @ 5:19 pm
Well, I heard Swedes do not bring their children to funerals, might be too “traumatic”. How stupid and wussy is that, death is simply part of life cycle.
Funerals are also one of the rare moments to meet relatives so why not bring the digicam with you. The Finnish culture is not all western culture, it is a mix of eastern and western cultures. So there probably are some things that Americans regard as weird.
Comment by tim73 — Wed, Jun 29th, 2005 @ 5:55 pm
My parents didn’t bring me to funerals when I was a small boy. My first funeral was when I was eleven or twelve. When I discussed the experience with my ala-aste classmates in Helsinki, many of them said that they’d never been to a funeral. Most of my relatives’ funerals were not in Helsinki; a smaller group of people often travels to a funeral if the distance is long. My parents didn’t speak anything of trauma, they just didn’t think it necessary to bring me along. But no-one really close to me died when I was small, had I lost a grandparent as kid I think I would certainly have been brought along to the funeral.
Comment by Helsinkian — Wed, Jun 29th, 2005 @ 6:05 pm
Theres a lot of things in America thats past weird, so I think we can have the digicameras without worrying…
Comment by Hank W. — Wed, Jun 29th, 2005 @ 6:06 pm
Interesting observation! I would not have thought anything odd about taking photographs at a funeral - though of course mainly just by one “official” photographer. So, not something for everyone’s family album (like the case seems to be at times at weddings). In the Southern Ostrobothnian context we would have tradionally have the “h?¤?¤- or hautajaisv?¤ki” picture, a picture of all the participants (family and villagers). It is somehow marking the occasion. It does not feel odd at all, but interesting that the custom seems to be fairly purely local - does anyone know what’s the practice in the other Nordic countries? (Of course, I come from a Pietist - her?¤nn?¤isyys - background, so no matter the occasion, everything would be completely dry, but with very lovely 18th century folk hymns to partially compensate…
Comment by mjr — Wed, Jun 29th, 2005 @ 6:32 pm
I have some (distant) relatives whom I’ve only ever met in funerals, so if there were no photos, I couldn’t even remember them anymore.
I think it depends on how and when you take the photos. I’d personally smash anyone’s camera if they came to take pictures of me during somebody’s actual funeral service, but I’d have no problems with it if some photos were taken afterwards. It should be done with respect, in general..
Comment by Stello — Wed, Jun 29th, 2005 @ 7:12 pm
All of my grandparents are still alive, expect for one: my maternal grandmother passed away before I was even born. The photographs of the funeral are my only “real” link to the person my mom still talks about (she passed away 1980), not very frequently but often enough for me to notice. Weird? Yep, definitely - if you’re not finnish, not for me. I just find it as another piece of documentation about my family and relatives, just as the pictures of the relatives who lived 50-100 years ago. Just a bit more special than those, she is/was my grandmother after all and (at least accoring to mom and some other people) I have inherited some personality traits etc. from her, via mom.
Comment by Annu — Wed, Jun 29th, 2005 @ 8:53 pm
Well, if people take pictures of the unknown dead drunk at the bus stop last week and post it on flickr without much reaction, what’s the big whoop about funeral pictures? I SEE DEAD PEOPLE.
Comment by hfb — Wed, Jun 29th, 2005 @ 9:00 pm
Good points about cultural differences all round, but additionally there’s a practical thing that just may make a difference as well… It is my understanding that American funerals take place very soon after death (within three days or so), while in Finland I know that several weeks tend to pass. By then the immediate family and close friends may have got a bit more used to the fact that the dear departed is indeed gone, and the funeral isn’t quite so horrible an experience.
It’s always bad enough, of course. Three of my grandparents have died during the last five years, when I was quite grown up already and kind of thinking that they would stick around forever (I still have one left). The funerals were very tough and emotional. However, I’ve never really had a problem with people taking photographs, or looking at them afterwards.
Also, when an old person like a grandparent dies (particularly someone like one of my grandmothers, who was a lovely person but had been making it very clear for years that she thought she had lived far too long already) there’s the aspect that life quite naturally eventually comes to an end and this just has to be accepted and dealt with. Funerals are perhaps not so much about celebrating death as celebrating the life of the deceased and the memories they left behind, and most of the funerals - even more, the “muistotilaisuus” afterwards - have been very important in that respect, at least for me personally.
I’ve heard, BTW, that in some (Eastern?) parts of Finland there is a tradition that the close relatives open the casket and put a pair of newly knit woollen socks on the feet of the deceased before the funeral service, as a sort of little farewell ceremony. Not a tradition in my family, but the idea does not freak me out either.
Comment by Paula — Wed, Jun 29th, 2005 @ 10:16 pm
It is my understanding that American funerals take place very soon after death (within three days or so), while in Finland I know that several weeks tend to pass. By then the immediate family and close friends may have got a bit more used to the fact that the dear departed is indeed gone, and the funeral isn???t quite so horrible an experience.
That’s an excellent point.
Comment by Phil — Wed, Jun 29th, 2005 @ 10:54 pm
I have the photos of both my dad’s and mom’s funerals last year. If there were no photos I would not remember a thing as I was so mazed. (they died 2 months apart, dad from a sudden - 3 month illness and mom the same day). So if I ever have children I want to show them who is who from the pictures.
Comment by Hank W. — Thu, Jun 30th, 2005 @ 12:03 am
3) comments:
1) Is this really true? Bodies are lying around somewhere in the house for a few weeks?
Comment by Saksalainen — Thu, Jun 30th, 2005 @ 10:28 am
One reason why I was amazed to see Phil’s comment that taking pictures at American funerals is unthinkable is the fact that the picture of little JFK jr. saluting his slain father’s casket is one of the most famous US photos of the 20th Century. Other pictures from Kennedy and other US political leaders’ and celebrities’ funerals are part of the collective memory.
Comment by Helsinkian — Thu, Jun 30th, 2005 @ 11:51 am
There are many death customs which may seem creepy to outsiders. For example in some parts of the world it has been customary to eat parts of the deceaced one’s body. To us it’s unthinkable but to them it was highest honour you could give to deceaced. As long as death traditions don’t hurt anyone (like sacrificung living persons), I don’t see why it would be necessary to call them creepy or start to arrogantly “wonder” what’s the point. Like our/yours customs would be the right and only propriate ones.
Comment by Arawn — Thu, Jun 30th, 2005 @ 12:04 pm
One reason why I was amazed to see Phil???s comment that taking pictures at American funerals is unthinkable is the fact that the picture of little JFK jr.
True, Presidents and high profile people may have pictures at the funeral. But I’m talking about the other 99.99% of “ordinary” funerals.
Comment by Phil — Thu, Jun 30th, 2005 @ 12:09 pm
I don???t see why it would be necessary to call them creepy or start to arrogantly ???wonder?? what???s the point.
Think of it as a history discussion. We’re trying to figure out how and why a certain tradition was started. Yeah, many of us think it’s weird, but no one has stated that it’s “wrong and should be stopped!”
Comment by Phil — Thu, Jun 30th, 2005 @ 12:11 pm
Saksalainen: if you mean whether Finnish funerals really take place weeks after the death, then generally the answer really is yes. One week is the shortest time I’ve known to pass in between. The body of the deceased is kept at the mortuary / funeral home / somewhere like that in the meanwhile (not sure about the practical details here since I never yet took care of those).
Historically BTW, the funerals of people who died in the middle of the winter usually had to be postponed till spring simply because the ground was frozen up and a grave could not be dug…
Comment by Paula — Thu, Jun 30th, 2005 @ 1:25 pm
Paula: in Germany, as far as I know, a week is considered quite long time. Of course, it depends on the circumstances (e.g. family members living far away).
In general, I didn’t know about the custom of taking pictures before last week. I wonder how many other traditions & customs there are I’m not aware of. And just to make sure: I’m not judging other nation’s/people’s traditions. They are what they are, whether we like it or not. I believe that most readers of Phil’s blog are biased by the country/culture they come from and that makes the discussions so interesting.
Comment by Saksalainen — Thu, Jun 30th, 2005 @ 2:05 pm
“One reason why I was amazed to see Phil???s comment that taking pictures at American funerals…”
But it’s not just America. You would get very very odd looks if you started taking photos at a British funeral as well. And Phil said his german friend also thought it was odd, so maybe it’s just a Finnish thing?
Comment by Toby — Thu, Jun 30th, 2005 @ 2:26 pm
I’ve been looking for evidence of US funeral photo customs (at least local and minority communities) and I stumbled on this photo blog:
http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-fetch-msg?msg_id=00BqdG
In free market capitalism, if anyone wants a photo session at a US funeral, that seems to be possible to arrange.
Comment by Helsinkian — Thu, Jun 30th, 2005 @ 3:37 pm
Sorry, wrong link. Try again:
http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00BqdG
Comment by Helsinkian — Thu, Jun 30th, 2005 @ 3:39 pm
I thought that the JFK funeral at Arlington would have been such a national milestone in the States that it might inspire some people who could identify their own funeral with a presidential funeral. So funeral videos seem to be a big thing at Arlington, VA, military funerals:
http://www.allvid.com/funerals.html
Comment by Helsinkian — Thu, Jun 30th, 2005 @ 3:52 pm
if you whipped out the digicam at an American funeral, cause it???s never happened, it???s unthinkable.
how? why?
Comment by jooo — Thu, Jun 30th, 2005 @ 9:18 pm
if you whipped out the digicam at an American funeral, cause it???s never happened, it???s unthinkable.
how? why?
Well I certainly wouldn’t want pictures of me while I’m greiving and I’m sure others feel the same. And, I know my mother wouldn’t have wanted pictures of my deceased father in the coffin.
Comment by Phil — Thu, Jun 30th, 2005 @ 9:32 pm
It’s the same thing in Estonia. You are looking at happy childhood memories and then suddenly, there’s vanaema, in all her glory. I don’t get it either, and I am not sure the Estonians do, but no matter what, someone will be there with a camera. Maybe Finnic people really are related to the Japanese.
Comment by giustino — Thu, Jun 30th, 2005 @ 9:44 pm
Just for the record, at none of the funerals I’ve been to has the coffin been open (that seems to be an Orthodox Church thing), and no one I know is in the habit of taking pictures of the deceased in the coffin or anywhere else. I went to see my grandmother after her death - the first time I ever really saw a dead person - and while it wasn’t a horrible experience at all, no, I wouldn’t have wanted any pictures taken. Nor did anyone else in the family.
However, such a thing is definitely not unheard of here in Finland. I remember seeing a documentary a few years ago on TV about a teenaged Finnish girl who committed suicide and how her family coped with. Her parents had actually taken pictures of their daughter’s body at the hospital and of her mother crying at her side, and moreover they seemed more than willing to show those pictures in public. I didn’t really get it, but for them it seemed one of the ways of dealing with their grief.
Comment by Paula — Thu, Jun 30th, 2005 @ 11:01 pm
One friend of a friend of mine died in a forestry related accident at his early twenties almost 20 years ago. His father took also many pictures from the site of accident and also from the “steel table”. It seemed that the pictures helped the father to deal with the shock and the grief, but my friend, who has seen the pictures, says he is sometimes still haunted by them, rather experiencing any kind of therapeutical effect. Dealing with the loss of a loved one is very personal and individual thing and what suits for one is a disaster for another.
Talking about weird photo-ops, anyone remember that exhibition collected from some 100+ years old photographs from the deep south of the United States. At the time, locals took family and group portraits with a recently lynched negro hanging from a tree.
Comment by antti (the red neck one) — Thu, Jun 30th, 2005 @ 11:27 pm
“He figures that Finns feel death is just another important aspect of life, and should be kinda ‘celebrated’ as well as mourned (??¦or something like that)”
Well, after burial the coffee/sandwich/cake occasion at the parish house is more like a celebration. It’s always good to know a few jokes or stories about the dead one!
Comment by Eino-Kalevi — Fri, Jul 1st, 2005 @ 1:35 am
I think that the celebration after the burial often marks the end of the grief. If you have been grieving for a month, there’s nothing weird about a certain sense of relief, pure celebration of the deceased person’s life and a sense of community even with some of your folks you only ever see at funerals. So the occasion after the burial really can be a relatively upbeat family event. That doesn’t mean funeral photos don’t show the grief at the burial because documenting that part is probably just as important as taking pictures of the relatives celebrating together. And I’d say pictures of the floral arrangements are very important to many people.
Comment by Helsinkian — Fri, Jul 1st, 2005 @ 10:09 am
Without taking photos in my grandfather’s funeral I wouldn’t have a pic of my brother in a dark suit. He is very handsome
While travelling around and introducing an interactive black tv-comedy that i am writing to Noth-Americans i have noticed how much different attitude Finns have towards death. Here people find it funny that the main characters may die in four different manner. North-Americans just don’t see anything funny about it, the whole storyline seem just totally weird . They ask me to put there one ending where nobody dies.
Comment by Leena — Fri, Jul 1st, 2005 @ 10:20 am
Apparently open casket photos are a common part of Hispanic funerals in the United States:
http://www.biomed.lib.umn.edu/hw/ccf.html
“There isn’t a pronounced variation in funeral rituals among Hispanics of Cuban, Puerto Rican and Dominican descent. One custom that does differ in Latin-American culture from other cultures is photography of the deceased during parts of the funeral rite. A family member explained that the pictures were used as a marker to preserve the death as an important historical event in the heritage of the family.”
This 1995 text is from a University of Minnesota website written by a US funeral specialist. This might explain why open casket photos of the Pope were widely distributed not only in Europe but also in America. The biggest target audience for such photos, US Hispanics, most probably sincerely appreciated that media gesture.
Comment by Helsinkian — Fri, Jul 1st, 2005 @ 10:39 am
I meant that the biggest target audience of the open casket photos of the Pope in the US media would have been the Hispanic demographic. Obviously there was a global demand among Catholics for such photos, regardless whether they take pics of their deceased loved ones at private funerals or not.
Comment by Helsinkian — Fri, Jul 1st, 2005 @ 11:00 am
Isn’t the adoration of pictures, statues, etc. more of a Catholic tradition anyways. I’m just thinking of the worshipping of Maria pictures and statues, for example in Italy or Spain. Since most Finnish are Protestant, I can’t believe that taking pictures at funerals in Finland comes from that tradition.
I’m getting more and more convinced that the origin of this tradition is the fact that death is considered more a natural part of life in Finland than in other countries, where people try to ban “death” from their lifes.
Comment by Saksalainen — Fri, Jul 1st, 2005 @ 11:52 am
It may be so that the tradition of seeing death as a natural part of the life cycle has remained in some form among us Finns. But it can be that those Catholics and Buddhists in many countries (including some communities in the US such as Hispanic Americans) that also take funeral photos actually accept death as part of life in a much more broader way than we Finns do. Most of today’s Finns have very little in common with the way old Karelians, Vepsians and Ingrians saw at life and death. I suppose that these communities still hold to some traditional views to a certain extent among the elderly population.
The one US community I’ve always associated with broad acceptance of death as a part of life are the Native Americans. It would be interesting to know what their relationship to cameras at funerals is.
Comment by Helsinkian — Fri, Jul 1st, 2005 @ 12:12 pm
This stuff is about the coverage of funerals after the school massacre at the Red Lake Reservation in Minnesota this year:
http://www.torchgrab.org/redlake.htm
“No cameras whatsoever were tolerated at any of the wakes or funerals. Any media person caught moving about beyond the designated areas were arrested, and in some cases, their equipment was confiscated.”
This is of course no ordinary Native American funeral situation. I think they also wanted to avoid the publicity that Columbine got at any cost.
If something like that would have happened in Finland, I think there would have been a very public memorial ceremony in a big church with tv cameras and everything and it could still be very possible that victims’ families would want to keep outside photographers and journalists as far as possible from their private grief of a very special sort.
Comment by Helsinkian — Fri, Jul 1st, 2005 @ 12:31 pm
The funeral in Finland depends on how the person has died - and if the hospital wants/police requires an autopsy - then it can take a week or two. if the person dies at home/not in a hospital there is always an investigation and autopsy. In a hospital if the cause is self-evident and the relatives don’t want an autopsy then a week might be possible. getting a priest though to perform the funeral isn’t that easy either, nor booking the - usually congregation hall - so theres a lot of details. The funeral homes here usually will offer to take care of all the arrangements, but they really rip you off sometimes.
Comment by Hank W. — Fri, Jul 1st, 2005 @ 1:45 pm
Oh, and getting the burial spot & so forth also isn’t that easy so when ebverything is possible it can take well 3-4 weeks easily.
Comment by Hank W. — Fri, Jul 1st, 2005 @ 1:46 pm
Plenty of old people have the burial spot ready, though - meaning that they have chosen the spot and reserved it / paid for it or what have you. Not to mention that many are buried in established family graves.
Comment by Paula — Fri, Jul 1st, 2005 @ 4:53 pm
Can’t we make up our own camera etiquette, must we teach ourselves the American one??
And think of the foto album if there are no pictures from the funeral. First, there is Grandma playing with the kids. Then she is off to the old folks home, there are fewer and fewer pics, then she disappears. Is that respectful? What do you tell the kids when you show the album? “She must’ve croaked sometime in 2002, if I’m right…”
Comment by Windy — Tue, Jul 5th, 2005 @ 10:10 pm
Living in Australia, photographing at funerals isn’t that popular. However when my father died in 2002 my mother hired a photographer and videocamera guy. I’m sure many people attending would have thought this a bit strange. The main purpose of this was to take pictures not only for ourselves but for my father’s family. Since we migrated to Australia, we have no relatives here, and they were unable to travel so far for the funeral. So it was nice that they could see how their son/brother/cousin/nephew was remembered.
Last year my uncle in Finland also died, and thanks to the tradition of funeral photos, my family in Australia was able to see how our uncle was remembered. This was able to make us feel a part of what we had to miss out on due to the distance.
I think that the tradition of funeral photography in Finland is not creepy, but something that allows families to look back on the complete lives (including death) of loved ones
Comment by Mooki — Thu, Jul 7th, 2005 @ 4:51 am
Yes, last time I attended funerals here in Finland, I also was astonished by the fact that there was somebody taking photographs all the time. That was odd.
Comment by a — Thu, Jul 7th, 2005 @ 7:07 pm
The open coffins are not just Karelian tradition. Also in western Finland coffins used to be open up till WWII. The closed coffins first appeared at the funerals of the war dead, and that was to save the people from seeing the bloody mess that used to be their sons/husbands/brothers.
I have never thought that funeral pictures would be odd. They help to remember: “It was a dark December day. These people were present. The memorial table (one with a photo, candle, and flower) looked like this. The grave looked like this with all the flowers.”
I have a picture of my maternal grandmother in an open coffin (1930?“s). I am glad I have it since I never saw her, and that is the only existing picture of her.
Funerals of old people are usually quite fun family occations with little speaches commemorating the deceised person. Often lots of jokes.
Comment by Felix — Sat, Jul 9th, 2005 @ 2:57 pm
Phil,
Americans seem to love their Kodak moments as well
http://www.donorth.net/winterwonder…hua_michael.htm
Comment by Hank W. — Mon, Jul 11th, 2005 @ 1:08 am
I’ve seen some twenty photos of my grandmother who died when my father was a little boy, mostly photos of a smiling young woman. In one of the photos there are my grandfather and my father standing next to the open coffin and my grandmother looks young, vulnerable and heavenly beautiful. No trauma for me at all, just a soft spot in my hearth for the little boy in the picture. I think the photo has taught me a great deal of life in general and my father’s life especially.
Comment by Rosa — Tue, Jul 12th, 2005 @ 12:45 am
Here in Poland it is quite common to take pictures of an open coffin with a body. I’m not sure what for, but maybe it’s naturel if you don’t consider death to be a personal tragedy but rather the begining of something better.
Comment by ewwa — Thu, Nov 1st, 2007 @ 8:55 pm
I too am Finnish - as a matter of fact, first generation Canadian Finn and I resent that you are commenting that we “lack camera etiquette”. It is quite common for most European cultures to photograph death. Who watched Princess Diana’s funeral on television? Is that not the same thing? What is “creepy” about taking pictures at a funeral? Perhaps I feel this way not only because my father died 5 years ago (and I took MANY pictures, thank you!) but because I also work in a funeral home. We also took many rolls of film along with us for both the visitation and the funeral. It provides comfort - memories of floral tributes, of who was there, etc, etc. It is entirely based on the fact that we take pictures all throughout our lives why not in death? Did you find the people were “creepy” in life? I mean, we film our children’s birth which quite honestly is not something I would want to watch or show anyone else for that mater but some people do - but everyone has an opinion. I also think that anyone who finds death disturbing has never accepted that this is a natural part of life - were you never exposed to funerals as a child? How were you raised that you find it so “creepy and disgusting”? There is nothing wrong with bringing a cameral to a funeral so long as you are not aiming it in the deceased’s nose or filming close ups of each finger nail. Deal with it!
Comment by Maria — Fri, Mar 14th, 2008 @ 7:15 pm
I didn’t think I’d want to take pictures at a funeral, but when both my grandmother and mother passed, I did. It was as though I wanted the photos to commemorate the completion of a life. They are not something I look at a lot, but they do not bother me;; when I do look at them, they are a ‘memento mori’, a reminder that my elders have gone through it, and my time will come. Death is something we all have to face, and we might as well get used to it. Anericans are one of the most death-denying societies in the world.
In the old days, pictures were often taken of the body of a loved one because that may have been the only record that the person had lived at all. One of my baby uncles died before he was a month old; there is a picture of him in his little box. It is the only picture of him. But for the picture, we would never have seen the brother my mother told us about at all. I am Italian-Portuguese-American and Catholic.
Comment by Maddalena — Sun, Jun 22nd, 2008 @ 12:45 am