Tervetuloa | Welcome
As an American living in Finland, I started this blog six years ago to address the political and cultural issues in Finland and the United States - but lately this blog is just a place for me to make fun of Finns and Americans. :-)

Find out more about me from my personal or professional sites. Enjoy!

6.6.2005

Religious importance

Tags: Uncategorized — Author: Phil @ 12:35 pm

From a recent AP poll…

Comments (18)

18 Comments »

That’s sad

Comment by Jani Kuusisto — Mon, Jun 6th, 2005 @ 1:00 pm
Because the U.S. has such a high religious rate, I think Americans are pressued into saying they’re Christians or they believe in God. If you tell a group of people in the U.S. that you don’t believe in God, they’ll look at you quite funny and some could get angry. So I wonder if many.

I’d like to see a survey on the African American community, I bet their rate would be near 100% believe in God.

Comment by Phil — Mon, Jun 6th, 2005 @ 1:38 pm
Interesting poll! I was surprised to see that the difference between Italy and the United States wasn’t that significant in this poll.

It was also surprising to see that a majority of Americans would NOT want religious leaders to influence politics. After all, Billy Graham became a sort of unofficial presidential pastor of 20th Century America. The poll result would mean that there are voters who are dissatisfied with the religious politics-as-usual in America. Maybe the negative poll result has something to do with George W. Bush giving religion in politics a bad name among the Democrats and independents in the electorate.

Too bad Poland, Ireland and Malta (more Catholic countries than Italy) weren’t included. It would also have been nice to see how Scandinavian countries look like in comparison with France.

Comment by Helsinkian — Mon, Jun 6th, 2005 @ 1:52 pm
Yeah, I would have loved to see Scandinavia’s results as well.

After all, Billy Graham became a sort of unofficial presidential pastor of 20th Century America

People forget that the Democrats have their share of religious political nutjobs too. Reverened Al Sharpton ran for President in 2004. Reverend Jesse Jackson ran in 1996 and 1992.

And in 2000 (and like every other year as well) Lyndon LaRouche, whom I consider a religious whacko but others might disagree

Comment by Phil — Mon, Jun 6th, 2005 @ 2:15 pm
I don’t think Billy Graham’s advisory role was restricted to Republican Presidents only. Maybe he wasn’t as close to Democratic Presidents but Democratic Presidents have actually tended to be Southern Baptists lately. Jimmy Carter’s the one who made it ok to be the President and to be a vocal born again Christian at the same time.

Al Sharpton and Lyndon LaRouche are just as close to the Democratic mainstream as David Duke is to the Republican mainstream. Jesse Jackson is more of a mainstream Democrat, though. Touting your religion kind of goes with running for President.

The reason why people forget that the Democrats have been influenced by religious leaders is that JFK has remained the symbol for the separation of Church and state. John F. Kerry tried to emulate him. He did a great job in the blue states but in the red states he was considered being the worst kind of hypocrite for thinking that his religion is his private business and his public policies do not have to be related to his religion.

Comment by Helsinkian — Mon, Jun 6th, 2005 @ 2:48 pm
Man these Aussies must be pretty proud of their religion – the importance percentage adds up to 130%!!!

Comment by Antti — Mon, Jun 6th, 2005 @ 4:13 pm
Maybe the Aussies over the 100% mark are the new arrivals kept at the government’s refugee detention camps…

Comment by Helsinkian — Mon, Jun 6th, 2005 @ 4:26 pm
The contrast between Spain and Italy is new to me. I’ve always assumed that Spain had comparably close levels of religious feeling to that of the Italians. The difference, in Spain’s case, is probably due to a reaction against Franco’s conservatism, and the fact that Italians are influenced by the close proximity of the seat of the Church.

Comment by Finnpundit — Mon, Jun 6th, 2005 @ 7:08 pm
Of course Americans believe in God. In their money it reads, in God (the dollar) we trust.

Comment by Hank W. — Mon, Jun 6th, 2005 @ 11:31 pm
I didn’t know Lyndon LaRouche was especially religious.

Comment by Alan K. Henderson — Tue, Jun 7th, 2005 @ 8:40 am
Maybe Phil was talking about Lyndon LaRouche as an extremist cult figure. He sort of presents himself in a messianic way, like a secular version of a religious guru.

Comment by Helsinkian — Tue, Jun 7th, 2005 @ 1:11 pm
Finnpundit, Pope Pius XII was the man behind Italy’s Christian Democratic Party (DC). Italy’s postwar leader De Gasperi spent the war years in the Vatican library. There was an especially close relationship between religious leadership and politics in the immediate POST-Fascist period. The Church was seen as instrumental in building the democratic (albeit rather corrupt postwar) system in Italy. In Spain the relationship between Church and state was strongest during the Fascist (Franquista) period itself. I don’t think the close physical proximity to Vatican is as important in the case of Italy as is the TIMING of when the Church decided to be seen as politically active.

In Italy, the monarchy was voted out because they were seen as close to the Fascists. In Spain, the monarchy is popular because they are seen as a stabilizing factor that supports the post-Fascist democratic society (just like the Church in Italy).

Comment by Helsinkian — Tue, Jun 7th, 2005 @ 1:21 pm
Maybe Phil was talking about Lyndon LaRouche as an extremist cult figure. He sort of presents himself in a messianic way, like a secular version of a religious guru.

Exactly. Ever met a LaRouche fanatic? We used to have a few at my college campus. They’d have all these conspiracy theories to tell you about and pamphlets to give out.

Comment by Phil — Tue, Jun 7th, 2005 @ 10:55 pm
I don’t think I’ve missed out on much for never having met a LaRouche fanatic. I wonder if they’ll find a new leader after LaRouche becomes too old. He’ll probably keep running for President as long as he lives.

Comment by Helsinkian — Wed, Jun 8th, 2005 @ 1:35 pm
What exactly is the POINT of this poll in the first place? Do you think religious leaders should try to influence politics or not? What kind of conclusions can you really draw from answers to a question like that?

Comment by Thomas — Fri, Jun 10th, 2005 @ 12:45 am
It says something about the country in question. A significant proportion of Italians appear to think that successive Popes have been a beneficial influence to that country’s politics, whereas a majority of Italian Catholics would probably like to see their religion as outside of politics.

Especially among Evangelical Americans there is a tendency to see that Evangelical pastors (who do influence US politics) are a force for the good in politics.

In Finland, a portion of the Christian Democrats would probably agree with them. Finland of the interwar era was a society where bishops were highly respected in politics and Kokoomus was seen by many as the party of the Lutheran Church. Theologian Lauri Ingman, two-time prime minister and later archbishop, was the personification of a religious leader who defined the essence of Kokoomus politics:

http://www.answers.com/topic/lauri-ingman

There used to be more priests in Finnish politics, not so much anymore. If one could have access to a poll like this from Finland for a period of the past fifty years, the results could be extremely fascinating. I think it’s too bad if there never has been such a poll in Finland.

Comment by Helsinkian — Fri, Jun 10th, 2005 @ 4:06 pm
Later on, another Lutheran theologian, Mikko Juva (1918-2004) led the Liberal Party (from 1965 to 1968). He worked as professor of church history in Helsinki at the time and had a short stint as MP and party leader. Later on, Juva became the archbishop (from 1978 to 1982). In Finland we have experiences of both conservative and liberal theologians in politics.

Comment by Helsinkian — Fri, Jun 10th, 2005 @ 4:13 pm
Norway’s cabinet of Christian Democrats, Liberals and Conservatives is led by the charismatic Christian Democratic politician, Kjell Magne Bondevik, who is a Lutheran priest. I would say Bondevik is both a religious and political leader. I would classify Norway’s Christian Democrats as a midway solution between Germany’s secular CDU and Finland’s religious KD.

Comment by Helsinkian — Fri, Jun 10th, 2005 @ 4:21 pm