“the welfare state is the only reason for Finland???s success as ???philosopher??Pekka Himanen (although I prefer ???welfare state theologian?? to ???philosopher”) would like everyone to believe.”

What do you think Phil (and others too), what are the reasons?
- I’d emphasize culture over welfare state.

Oh, and Phil, I think Himanen gave HIM, Nokia etc. as examples of creativity, that is needed everywhere in society.. (Although I can’t see what HIM really has to do with this. And while I’m at it, I might say that it’s ok to have success and so on, but there’s other values in music too.) And Himanen is against uncritical welfare state ideology (we all are, I hope), and talks about taboo’s of welfare state (taxation, public/private sector) too. So I wouldn’t call him ???welfare state theologian?? because he sees something good in it too.

Well, aside from being really tired of hearing people talking about how great the schools are instead of, maybe, that the students and parents have some part in that, it seems like the same sort of tourist brochure fodder for summer cruise ship ticket sales. Why is it that no one in the press wants to do something really innovative and talk about what makes Finland interesting rather than spouting the same old superlatives that get recycled a bit too often.

“the same old superlatives that get recycled a bit too often.”
Maybe it’s because most of the americans haven’t heard those superlatives yet.

M…most superlatives are lies and rubbish for tourism brochures. Just as it bothers me that Finns have a lot of misconceptions about the US and parrot these sorts of things….they are the luxury of the tourists and those unwilling to consider the whole picture.

“most superlatives are lies and rubbish for tourism brochures”
Could be, but those superlatives are there to raise interest and to stimulate discussion.

But no-one is willing to reveal hte reason why Finland is so developed despite it’s totally imprudent governance?

Interest raised on exaggerations and non-truths tends to be very short lived. There’d probably be a lot fewer bitter expats here who came here believing the brochures and their SOs/spouses who, for a lack of wanting to be too realistic, also tend to crib heavily from the same stock stories.

I think that, for the time being, Finland can’t hear enough superlatives about itself.

For years and years all we ever heard about our country was negative stuff. “Finland is poor”, “The Finnish climate is cold and dark”, “Sweden does it better”, “Unlike actually civilized countries, Finland does not do this and that and does not have this and that”. Amongst an all too numerous group of older Finnish expats, it is actually still considered cool to put Finland at every turn. Losers.

So now that Finland gets raving reviews in certain important areas and lots of very good press all over the world, the last thing we need is cynical, negative people posing as critical and telling all of us to stop being happy just because Finland isn’t the Shangri-la they hoped it would be for them.

Anzi, but is it true? It seems a very very common thing that people who arrive here have been horribly mislead. I recently met an australian woman who, though bright, talented, educated and professional was repeatedly told to piss off as her university degree was not from Finland in spite of the fact that the industry she was in could use a hell of a lot more, shall we say, proficient english speakers with a different perspective on service for travellers. She has left already and left behind a Finnish boyfriend who feels badly that he had little or no real idea of how life works here and supposed that her getting a job with top creds and experience would have been trivial. Cynics are just realists who have learned to lower their expectations. I enjoy Finland, but I do get tired of the turnstile of people coming and going constantly because they were mislead by all the crap generalizations and hyperbole that seems to be terribly common for a land in the EU that is virtually unknown, even, and perhaps most especially, to itself.

If there is one thing that spending my teenage years abroad has taught me, it is this: Don’t believe the hype. (Thank you Public Enemy)
Brochures and marketing are just that: marketing. The whole point is to make things look better than they actually are. If someone is naive enough to take all of that at face value then they should take a long hard look at themselves.

I do, however, agree with you on the fact that Finnish employers have yet to understand the value of foreign education. I’ve seen it with my own eyes, watching friends with masters degrees from British universities struggling to even get into job interviews here. I have also witnessed foreign-educated friends being practically torn to work while the ink on their thesis is still wet.

Yes, Finland has a lot of problems and a lot of attitude adjustment to do. Could you please name a country that hasn’t?

And for what it’s worth, Finland is cold and dark more than half the year. It’s only negative if you don’t like the cold and the dark.

But ask yourself this in spite of reading all the glowing press, why is it that such a nice country has so few expats who stay more than five years? We just said goodbye to another one on Friday. I met a Finnish couple while walking the dog last night who have just returned from 7 or so years of living elsewhere and they commented at how ‘international’ Helsinki is these days which I thought was both funny and rather telling.

Anzi, there isn’t a perfect country but, again, superlatives and brochure copy and Finns trying to get their spouses to come here with optimism doesn’t address the specific problem I’m getting at here. Most of the information about Finland is in Finnish or in Swedish which doesn’t help outsiders much and, well, should be a big sign to begin with.

I like Finland quite a lot, but I’ve come to form my own opinions somewhere between the bitter expats and the glowing tourist brochures. If I knew 2 years ago what I know now about Finland, I might have just settled with visiting once a year with my husband.

But ask yourself this in spite of reading all the glowing press, why is it that such a nice country has so few expats who stay more than five years?

Because, like I said, Finland still has a lot of attitude adjustment to do. Again, which country hasn’t?
Or maybe they’re just homesick or looking for other opportunities in life.
There is no such thing as a perfect place to live.
If Finland truly is such a hostile place to live, then ask yourself this: Why do so many Finnish expats return to Finland permanently after about five years abroad?

Anzi, there isn???t a perfect country but, again, superlatives and brochure copy and Finns trying to get their spouses to come here with optimism doesn???t address the specific problem I???m getting at here.

Which is what, exactly?

Most of the information about Finland is in Finnish or in Swedish which doesn???t help outsiders much and, well, should be a big sign to begin with.

A sign of what? That Finland is a bilingual country? That fully understanding a country requires you to at least attempt to learn its language? Please clarify your point.

Well, if you weren’t being so incredibly huffy, you might understand that when much, if not the only, information about Finland in English, even for expats, is the same stuff that’s available to the tourists it’s a sign that maybe only tourists are welcome. It’s not as though many people have the opportunity to learn much Finnish at the multitude of Finnish Language schools and courses all over the world before arriving. I will admit that I recently saw an immigrant’s guide in English at the Tapiola Arts center which impressed and surprised me since Helsinki/Malmi isn’t exactly the welcome wagon and I’m still expecting to see a blinking ‘go the fuck home’ sign in finnish there some day. I suppose Espoo has more funding.

The HS International Edition is about as good as it gets, but much of the time they don’t translate local stories for people here as it’s mostly PR. [Don't get your panties in a twist WLM]

Perhaps I’m wasting my time trying to explain that even when having lived here for a bit more than 2 years, knowing the language well enough to read the paper and making a valiant attempt daily fit in/to get along here…that every day is a struggle, especially at first, with or without knowing the language.

Superlatives come and go, but reality and its problems tend to hang around.

If Finland truly is such a hostile place to live, then ask yourself this: Why do so many Finnish expats return to Finland permanently after about five years abroad?

Because….they’re Finnish.

I have to apologise for my huffiness. I tend to get like that sometimes, a trait I picked up when attending an American school as a teenager and hearing “you’re from a small country, you are not important” almost every day.

I can offer you one theory as to why most information about Finland in English is geared towards tourists. It’s simply because Finns still view this country as a small backwards place where only Finns can survive. Our current wealth and supremacy in some areas is a very recent phenomenon. My parents (baby-boomers) remember a time when peaches and bananas were a rarity found only in specialised stores during the summer months. In my childhood in the 1980′s, a trip to Stockholm was a trip abroad. Now it’s like taking your bike to the next city district.

When Finns ask you what you’re doing living in Finland, they’re not being hostile. They’re surprised. It is still difficult for a lot of people to understand how someone from big America would want to voluntarily move to tiny Finland on the edge of Europe. This is where the infamous low Finnish self-sonfidence shows its ugly head.

America is a country built on immigration. Finland is a country built by Finns themselves. For centuries, the only foreigners who came to Finland were conquerers of sorts, which kind of explains our wariness towards foreigners.

I am not trying to justify Finnish behavior but this might offer some explanation.

Perhaps I???m wasting my time trying to explain that even when having lived here for a bit more than 2 years, knowing the language well enough to read the paper and making a valiant attempt daily fit in/to get along here??¦that every day is a struggle, especially at first, with or without knowing the language.

Sounds like my experience as a teenager in an American school. “You’re from a small country, you’re not important” I was told every day.
I can tell you that this is not a problem solely confined to Finland. It is something that expats all over the world have to go through. It is a natural part of the immigration process. Some people find it easier than some.

Perhaps I???m wasting my time trying to explain that even when having lived here for a bit more than 2 years, knowing the language well enough to read the paper and making a valiant attempt daily fit in/to get along here??¦that every day is a struggle, especially at first, with or without knowing the language.

Sounds like my experience as a teenager in an American school. “You’re from a small country, you’re not important” I was told every day.
I can tell you that this is not a problem solely confined to Finland. It is something that expats all over the world have to go through. It is a natural part of the immigration process. Some people find it easier than some.

Sorry for the double post, my browser is being weird.

I also have to apologise for my huffiness. I tend to get overly defensive about this subject, mainly because I have already gone through the whole expatriation-repatriation process with all of its ups and downs and it bothers me when expats in Finland (or Finnish expats abroad) talk about their adjustment problems like it’s solely a Finnish thing. It really is not.

I can offer you one possible theory as to why most English-language information about Finland is still geared towards tourists. It’s because Finland’s wealth and supremacy in some fields are relatively new phenomena. As a child in the 1980′s, a trip to Stockholm was a trip abroad. Now it’s like a bike-ride to the next city district. My baby boomer parents have clear memories of a time when apricots and bananas were rarities found only in specialised stores during a few summer months. When they first told me this, I remember laughing and shaking my head in disbelief.

Many Finns still view Finland as this backwards country on the edge of Europe, which has nothing to offer to anyone but Finns. America is a country built by immigrants and on immigration. Finland is a country built by Finns. When a Finn asks you what you’re doing in Finland, don’t immediately assume that they want you out of here. Most likely this person is just surprised that someone from big America would want to come and voluntarily live in small Finland. Finns still have a lot of attitude adjustment to do in this area.

For centuries the only foreigners that came to Finland came here to conquer the country in some way or another. This offers a very good explanation to the Finns’ wariness towards foreigners. It doesn’t justify it, but it explains at least part of it.

Now I REALLY have to apologise for double posting. None of my posts were coming through and I thought that they had been lost in cyberspace. A great big oops, sorry, and thousand apologies are in order.

Anzi, you wrote that the only foreigners who came to Finland were conquerers of sorts. If you look at Finland’s traditional Tartar and Roma minorities, I wouldn’t call them conquerers. The same goes for the Jewish community. What about all the foreigners who gave Finland’s industry a start? Gutzeit and Finlayson weren’t conquerors the way I look at it, even if they were ‘conquering’ markets. Go to downtown Helsinki and look at what the German architect Engel achieved in giving Finland’s new capital a facelift. “Finland is a country built by Finns themselves”. Hmmm. Many of us in Finland have a great-great-great-grandfather (for instance Flemish or Vallon) or something who emigrated to Finland centuries ago with a skill that no-one in this country had. I find the idea that there never were any foreigners in Finland very strange indeed. OK, maybe there never was mass immigration to Finland but certain foreigners made a difference in building Finland, for Finns and for themselves.

Good point, Helsinkian. I guess what I was trying to say was that there has never been mass immigration to Finland and that we’re still getting used to that.

Gutzeit, Engel, and co. were isolated individuals. They were not part of a flow of Europeans who suddenly decided to move to Finland.
The Tartars and Roma have always kept to themselves, and especially the Roma have a history of isolating themselves from the main population altogether, though that is mostly due to some very racist policies conducted by the government. The Jewish community (my grandmother is Jewish) in Finland has always been very small and confined to mostly Helsinki. I think that there are about 5000 Jews in all of Finland. That’s not very much.

For decades, centuries even, Finland was a homogenous country people left to find a better life for themselves. Only recently has it become a more diverse country people come to to find a better life for themselves.

finland sucks shitty poop and is boring

Hi, I thought I’d just leave this message on your blog. I hope you don’t mind. I’ve been trying to find blogs where people are talking about b and when I was looking, I found this one on you article. thought I would say hi, before I go off to find some more info on this field.

Hi, I thought I’d just leave this message on your blog. I hope you don’t mind. I’ve been trying to find blogs where people are talking about baby casting calls and when I was looking, I found this one on you article. thought I would say hi, before I go off to find some more info on this field.

Hi to everyone! My name is Suzie Swanson from Dallas Texas. Do you know there is a cool WP plug in that lets surfers subscribe to rss feeds by email!

this site did not help me at all… completely useless… you’re all boring as dog shit….

Frankly, I think that the finnish school system works a lot better than the american system. And before you ask, yes, I have lived in both Finland and the U.S (Currently in Finland, back home). And to DSA on the comment “Finland sucks shitty poop”, I’ll just say that if you yelled that aloud in a Finnish bar, your body parts would be found scattered across town the next day.

Us Finns are very patriotic when it comes down to it, we may feel sorry for ourselves in mid-winter, crying that we dont live in a warmer climate but if we hear anyone else make fun of our country we immediately become defensive and are willing to fight for our point. I think the winter war showed how close we are and how patriotic we are about our Finland. Right now I am living in Canada and I miss Finland daily, Canada is nice and probably seems closest to Finland where I live (hockey, lots of snow and lots of lakes and forests) but nothing can duplicate my homeland

I love finland

Finland sucks and finnish people are the biggest pussies on the planet. Fucking lame cunts.

steven from illinois:
go **** yourself.

You wouldn’t have the guts to say that comment of yours aloud in finland. not even in a kindergarten.

As for america:
you idiots think you’re some kind of world polices, sticking your crappy nose into every single war fought on this planet!
what did the states have to do in iraq? Well oil-qaid.. i mean AL-qaida was a CLEAR threat, and they had these terrible weapons of mass-destruction that suddenly disappeared after the attack! whoa!
goes beyond my imagination…

By the way, dear american, 80% of americans are FAT, over 30% CAN’T READ. Not to mention that you idiots don’t know any other language than English, AMERICAN English. I laugh at you!
I am 16 years old, and i can speak English, Finnish and Swedish fluently. What are you? 40 years old and know some english? “Hey buddy, give me a big one with cheese and fries! And skip the onion!”

..and i’m pretty standard here, a friend of mine is studying English, Finnish, Swedish, French and German.

9/11 was, by the way, a good day of my life, and when i heard about the wtc, it got even better.

have a nice day destroying the world and remember to burn in hell, all of you.

yours sincerely
me

merry christmas, by the way.

I am half Finnish and half Californian. I think finland sucks!I have lived here for 1 and half years. There is nothing to do here except go to a smoke filled bar. I thought that the people would be open and friendly but mostly as in any other country its the same except that it cost more here. If you dont believe in their values then you dont belong. One negative aspect of socialism and a closed culture I guess. Whats good for one is good for all. Its an excelent country in the summer time. Enjoying the summer with a bike ride and sauna cant be beat. But there is no culture. Im leaving in a month. Can anyone suggest something to do for fun! Im living in Helsinki.

Al, I caught your message by surprise in the spam bin. Don’t know why. I think this entry won’t be seen by many as it is so old. But try for example http://www.iesaf.fi and http://www.finlandforum.org for a chat, though you should have done that 1 1/2 years ago already.

I lived in Finland for a year and I experienced a whole different country. I met Finns with open arms as well as Finns who didn’t want to get to know somebody from abroad… but that’s the same in every country. I was really surprised that nearly everybody spoke english. I am originally from Germany and it’s quite a different situation over here. Try find someone in the supermarket that speaks english fluently. I didn’t know the language before I arrived so it was pretty difficult for me in the beginning. But the situation turned out well -which was 50% due to my personality but 50% due to friendly Finns. If I needed information and didn’t know where to find it I simply asked people on the streets. That’s how I got my internet working. The salesperson in the Elisa shop gave me perfect advices. Getting internet and so on running was easier and less complicated then in my homecountry -although the language problems and so on. Helsinki is quite international in a way and in another it’s not at all. I met many foreigners which were just hanging out with other foreigners. I am not better than them -my best friends in Finland were germans as well. The difference is that we made not one but many efforts to get to know finnish people as well. We struggled (and still do) with the language, but quite often we got compliments for trying! As in most european countries it’s a question of the generation. Young finns are more open minded than older ones (not all of them!!!) and welcome international friends. I worked for a philipine woman and she was surprised by the Finland I got to know. She arrived twelve years before me and yes, she tells stories of a rather hostile-towards-foreigners-Finland. Finland changed but people forget that a change is a process. We can’t expect that it’s a difference like night and day… and we shouldn’t because after all we love the country for beeing different from others, don’t we. If you want a second Germany or America -stay there!

finnish is the ugliest language i have ever heard.
and it’s really funny when you finns try to speak english.
you speak it with an ugly finnglish accents, lol.

That is so true ^^
“I’m from Finland.”
“What’s that????”

Sigh again some kids have seen some very uneducated person who is finnish speaking english and thinks every finnish sucks speaking english. Its just so stupid while those little kids only can speak english while 99% Finnish people speak atleast 3 different languages. Get life kiddo

Yeah, finnish doesn’t sound so beautiful, i admit.

But hey, i would sure like to hear an American try to speak Finnish or any other language than English without it sounding funny.

Someone wrote earlier that Finland is different. True. It’s called culture.

I agree with Manny, get a life and an education whoever you are.

Al Hopkins:

No, you’re not half Finnish.
You’re just a lost tourist.

If you say Finland hasn’t got any culture you clearly need new glasses.
Finlands culture in a nutshell:

Sisu, sauna and Sibelius. Winter. Kalevala. Hate Russians and Swedes. Also I’d like to add “mind your own business”, Finns aren’t open about their problems!! It just is like that!

Now if you ever are going to read this I have one question for you: What culture is there to see in USA?

hello hi honey

I hate finland. Living in finland makes you hate everything and ruins your outlook on life to the point where you cant adjust to life in other countries even if you try to. Thats why finns go back because their sick twisted minds make them sad in new situations that other people enjoy. And btw im finnish

Imo it’s pretty much same everywhere, no matter where do you move, it’s up to you how you fit in local social and cultural environment. I know Fins & non-Fin exiles those have lived (and still do) in Russia, Thailand, UK etc for years and they still don’t have any other friends than other exiles there, and their negative comments about their current home country sounds very familiar to ones I’ve been reading here. You have moved to new environment, you are foreigners in foreign country and everyone in same shit So the easiest way to handle situation is of course to hang around with other expats and bash your new home country how miserable place it is to live Well, in general other expats are your safetynet in new situation… but if you don’t take risk and really try to enlarge that net by getting local native friends you never fit in that new environment.

Fins are no easiest people to get in touch with and it’s up to you to make the first move. Some social hobbies like sports etc could be a easy start to meet people I guess… you cant really get new friends in bars/clubs etc, its simply not possible.

I can’t say I’m the best person to give advices, those were just my conclusions about things I could have done other way during my 2 failed attempts to start a new career and life abroad At last I have to say it’s no big differences in new environment those shocks you, it’s those tiny little small ones those pisses you off most

I admit that living in Finland hasn’t been easy at all. I’ve lived in other European countries but something about it here makes it really challenging. I don’t know, but it seems that there are many closed doors. Sisu is a very terrible thing to have to deal with.
I experience real anxiety watching poeple so isolated and yet I’m going through this isolation myself. It’s a helpless feeling. It’s so hard staying positive and most of all being enthusiastic about life. Drinking is a terrible excuse to use to open up. Afterall, there’s only 5 million of them. It’s not a big place at all. They should be more open, don’t you think? I don’t want to have to drink.
I really hate coming to a country and hearing them talk bad about the US. Afterall, i don’t work with the government so why do you have to tell me how my country sucks? Your attitude shows me that you aren’t willing to get to know me on an individual basis. Right there you slammed the door shut and if you get a bunch of Finns telling you the same thing, well it pretty much shapes an idea of the general local population. I never encountered that while living in France. I appreciated their openess and their ability to tolerate and accept differences. Homogenous is not something that seems to be working here but in time things are going to change, inevitably. I hope that the young people of Finland are going to get sick of it and change will be coming. They need to open up, break down the walls. Think for themselves without having anyone tell them how to, and what to think. Mostly, I hope that they will find the way to openmindedness, but not hostile because it’s such a clean place here and there is so much natural beauty that it seems would make people become gentle. For some reason, I hope that the youth will leave their hostlity and anger in the past and build a better place for everyone in it. Life’s too damn short to just put up with some outdated crap like ‘Sisu’and it’s time to make sure people can find happiness in experiencing real ‘community’ not something based on idealogies or newspaper articles about how they are the best in this or that. Okay, if the government is doing it’s half, it’s the people’s turn to turn things around and build ‘community.’ With only 5.5 million, people should smile more, talk more, laugh more. It’s time to take Sisu get rid of it. It’s not working anymore. Time to clean house.

Please post this Comment ONEHUNDRED REASONS WHY FINLAND SUCKS

1.Suicide rate 4 times higher than UK, 12 times higher than Spain
2.PISA results also revealed the Finns scored the least points for critical reading skills out of all countries ( and highest points for technical reading skills )PISA also revealed Finns students had the most difficulty in forming any opinions of their own.
3. Another study found that out of all EU countries the Finns disliked going to school the most because of the boring teaching methods and low conviviality.
4European Union Monitoring Centre for racism and xenophobia EUMC study revealed Somalis unepmloyment rate 70 % in Finland but only 14 % Somali unemployment rate in Sweden. Call that Racism or what ?
5. Old People’s Homes inFinland resemble Cauesescu’s orphanages. There are only 1/3 of the staff found in Sweden who work in state oldpeople’s homes inFinland. Old people in Finland are treated worse than animals , are drugged with heavy doses of sleeping pills and tranquilizers and tied to their beds with leather belts. How’s that for a humane northern society?
6. Finnish politicians are as corrupt as any others. The politicians maonouvred to give theirproxies free hand outs up to 450 million euros a few years back !!!! just by carving up the state owned petroleum end energy company FORTUM.That is 650 million US dollars amongthe chosen 400 management employees of Fortum. GM of fortum was given 25 milliondollars This makes US vice president look almost like a saint.

HOW’S THAT FOR A STARTER ALL YOU FINLAND LOVERS !

And we only got to six and I can go up to a 100.

Hi,my name is John.Im from Nigeria. I have had alot about Finland- how lovely and peacful its out there. I learnt its a good place to have a good free quality education and, the people there are so friendly.I realy wish to come over there, to futher my University Education ,and also lean about there religion.

Plz, if there is any one out here that i can get a help from regards to coming over to Finland to study. Plz, just holla back at me..

Take care everyone.
Reagards,
John..

Holy Sh*t! Finland is a sort of nice place to visit. Major cities only. Cities like Helsinki, Oulu, Tampere, Jyväskylä, Vantaa and maybe Rovaniemi are worth touring.The remainder of the country is closed-minded. Spend about two weeks then leave quickly. Why?, because one city is no more extravagant then the other. People are generally uptight. Consumer goods and services are over priced. Take in all the natural beauty and “sterile” establishments. After that you are done. Living in Finland is another obstacle that needs to be mentioned. Foreigners need not apply for work. Those who are employed are most likely for short term contracts with no job security. Unemployment is a way of life and depression follows just behind. Smoking & Alcoholism is another wonderful facet of Finnish culture as is the neglect of the elderly. Persons with mental disturbances receive the worst primary care and diagnosis. Alot of impression management tactics are employed by the general public to outsiders to give the illusion Finns are “nice”. Meanwhile, outsiders are criticised behind their backs. Basically, you can´t be Swedish, Russian, Asian, German, or any shade darker than white. Sometime ago, I changed my name. I got rid of my Finnish name. Unfortunately, I still have Finnish genetics. However, I am no longer a Finnish citizen and I am very happy. Finland is a benign nation with no future and a severely unimpressive culture. Finland only manages to hang on due to its Welfare State model as well as its Technology model. If it were not for EU membership, Finland would have been bankrupt by now. This also contributed to the loss of it´s unique culture. Finland tries to be like traditional Europe, sadly it fails. Sure I can find similar traits in other countires, but we are now discussing Finland. Don´t expect much from Finland.

Phil, what a naiive opinion about Finland in general. We Finns bride ourselves to believe all that bullshit about how this country is better than others and how services are free (which are nevertheless paid by other people) and the list goes on.

Finland’s unemployment percentage is said to be 7 % but if the main factor was real paid jobs with real salary it’d probably be around 14-18%. Let’s face it: They just needed to make the numbers more internationally comparable and have all these slavelabour kind of “jobs” which rarely lead to any real employment.

Getting a real job in Finland is not an easy task even for a native Finn. Taxation is high and many international and big finnish companies are not hiring in Finland just because of high costs. It’s not that they wouldn’t want to pay the salary, but its other costs on the side make it expensive. (Obligatory pension insurance payments, social fees and so on..)

Finland has severe problems in the society just like any other country. Our government just intensionally wipes the problems under the carpet and pretends that they don’t exist. The sterile image of Finland is just self-deception and causes groundless arrogance towards other countries.

Finland also has very high number of officials compared to the population. This country may be one of the most bureuacratic country in the world.

We’re not that unique infact we may be just lazy and passivated by this so-called welfare state model.

I lived in Helstinky for 3 long, depressing, anti-social, vitamin D deprived, self medicated by booze, years. I never knew what hell really was till I got there. It did not take long when no one talks to you or looks at you. No smiles, just naked asses in saunas, with nothing positive to say.

Hi John from Nigeria, I worked in Nigeria for two years before having the misfortune of getting my next job in Helstinky. There is no country that is more depressing then Finland. There are no people that are more introverted then the Finns. Of coarse you might get some sort of reaction out of them after there forth glass of Finlandia. Lagos was way more full of life and fresh fruit, delicious fish and fine weather then any part of finland will every be.

have you ever thought why nothern countries are usually very developed?? because we have to be or we would be dead othervise.
What did people do in tropical countries?? they chilled and ate bananas and had a really good time while we were using our brains to make things better. I really got born in a wrong country!
still finnish

we brought this western way of living there and we think they are worse than us coz of our values! Is that true??

umm.. Great, if someones can let the country be the way it is and just point some no-good stuff without trying to change the whole culture..

I lived in Japan and came to notice the Japanese are pretty much the same kind of bullshit-people as we Finns (I really do understand the annoyance you have,) but I love them the way they are, and that’s why I’m going to get back in there. probably makes me some kinda masochist though. I hope it’s your own choice to decide where you live, and I feel sorry for you, if you can’t do anything for your own situation.

Love you, if you like finland the way it is. keep studying the language and culture and try to bear us stupid Finns. If you don’t like it, I’m not going to blame you in any ways. but if you just hate the whole place, why do you still live in here, if it’s so damn hard? run for your lives.

Jag var ju helt enkelt tvungen att kommentera denna blogg då jag satt med ett googlesök efter “finland suger”, hamnade här, och resten är historia.
Intressant inlägg dock.
För övrigt så jo, Finland suger.

Is this the place where you can bitch about Finland? Where do I sign up?

Seriously ‘tho, I’ve been around the world a few times (maybe 30-40 countries), and I got to say, one of the main problems is: apathy. Sure it’s the weather and everything, but also the use of alcohol. I live in one of the “coolest” parts of Helsinki which also happens to be one of the most boozed ones (unfortunately). It’s damn gray in here, and that combined with the bureaucratic shit is damn depressing. Summers in Helsinki are OK ‘tho, but I wish I had the money to move somewhere else (seriously).

I lived in finland for 3 years. It was the most depressing place I ever experienced. I am a diplomat and have lived in poverty struck places like Africa, not to mention Russia, but I have yet to live in a more depressed, alcohole suicide country like Finland. We all believe Finland is a part of Europe, but truly it isn’t. Finland needs help and it needs to realize the needs.

You forgot a couple “the” words from your article. Having lived in Finland my whole life I have to point out how much I hate it here. The people are rude and obnoxious, there’s literally no culture and the welfare isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. Only good thing is the free education. Still I’d rather move to Russia than live another second in this depressig country. Also the Finnish are incredibly violent and since there’s nothing to do here people just drink alcohol(I don’t), so violence + alcohol = you know what. Finland has A LOT to learn in almost every department. Finland WOULD fall centuries behind if the current leaders were put out of comission. Now they aren’t even near the best leaders, but seeing as how this is a proletarian heaven there’s no other option really, unless this became a fundamentalistic country(which isn’t such a long-shot since Christianity is frighteningly strong in almost everything Finland does).

Of course no Finnish is ever going to take anything negative about Finland because the parents and especially the grand parents do an amazing job at brain washing their young by saying how Finland is better than all and that everyone else is wrong. A bit narcissistic?
Unless of course one of the minority who isn’t brain washed sees this, he or she will most likely agree to almost every point I had.

And I don’t agree about the Japanese being the same. At least they still have moral values. You really can’t say that about the Finnish now can you?

Totally agree with comment #46.
Finland sucks!
It’s by FAR, the most useless, inbreed cocks suckers and racist country i’ve ever put my feet on.
Actually i’m still trying to figure out which of Russia or Finland is first at racism and sucking cocks.
I guess they’re both nbr 1.

The comments here have really been quite an eye opener for me. I have known a Finish woman for several years here in New York and she is generally quiet, reserved and polite. The first thing I noticed, though, was an incredible lack of self esteem which I thought was just her but the comments here indicate that it is some sort of national trait. After getting to know her a bit, the reserved quiet side can turn to near violent outbursts. There is a tremendous anger just under the surface that everyone else is stupider than her, every American is an idiot, and Finland is both morally and intellectually superior to everywhere else. Fleeting statistics on education, how many countries they’ve traveled to on brief vacations, the economy and how many languages they speak in Finland seem to be how they measure themselves as superior to everyone else. The woman isn’t uneducated but she is certainly not as smart as she thinks she is. I think it must be the brainwashing that all the Finnish people here speak of. I never thought she was representative of the culture in Finland, but the comments on here make me think that many in Finland are like this. Of course there are all types everywhere, but this really turns me off of Finland.

Yes, they are retarted. But get me one country where people are not. It juts doesn´t exist.

I lived in Finland for about a year and a half, and I am disappointed. The people are selfish and rude, they hate foreigners. I speak finnish already, but doesn´t help at all. I have been a target of racist attacks 3 times. I work, and pay taxes and finance the lazy people who do not want to work. I don´t have health insurance, allthough I have all the documents required. I lived in many different countries, and this is by far the worst. If I don´t leave, I will commit suicide.

For comment 32 by SuomiFinland:
People like you make Finland such a bad place to live.

I live in Finland and I just have to say I can’t say anything good about this country anymore. Most of the bad things about Finland have already been said and I can totally agree with them.

I know I should go somewhere else from Finland but right now I don’t know do I even care anymore, I probably end up commiting a suicide.

I just hope you people don’t buy any Finnish products. For example Nokia phones. By doing that you don’t have to support this lame country.

Why not to try to change Finland.

I found this site accidentally, when I was trying to look for something on Pekka Himanen’s new report for the Finnish government.

I am Finn who has lived in Japan for over ten years. After reading the posts I thought this is exactly how I used to feel about Japan. Whenever I got back to Finland and saw Japanese tourist groups there, I wanted to go and bully them. Well, I never did it though , but what I want to say is that I experienced a very bad culture shock in Japan, actually several of them, and I just hated Japan, but what helped me was that I became an activist. I try to change Japan more foreigner-friendly now. And what is most important I try to change Japan with Japanese who think their country should change, too.

What I want to say here is that why not to try to change Finland. I am sure that there are Finns who would be happy to help you.

And what comes to racists, they are mostly rather uneducated people. Don’t waste your time on them. Just ignore them. If someone is violent against you, go to the police. Inform the tabloids. Make it public.
Don’t let Finland, or any other country for that matter, to ruin your life. You can make Finland a better place. As an expatriate Finn, I am surely happy, if you do so.

Well, let’s talk vice versa. I have been working in USA for a few years and can’t wait to get back to Finland.. US – land of the free? Give me a break please! A common known fact in Europe is that USA is a country full of bans. So much for the land of the free…

In almost every corner there is police car waiting to give you a ticket.. talk about a police state, that is USA. The gap between the rich and the poor is growing constantly… people are queing for food and living on food stamps, constantly wearing dirty clothes etc.

Infrastructure is devastating – roads are full of holes, and e.g the city where I live cannot even afford to fix that… it would mean raising the taxes which noone is willing to do cause it would be a political suicide.

The US national debt is so huge that I don’t even want to mention it here. Mark my words – if this doesn’t change, this country will go bankcrupt in the near future…

And what do Americans know about the outside world? Virtually zero.
I once talked to a man here who claimed to me that Scandinavia is a member in the NATO…. ooookay….. !?! Once I was watching a game show on TV here where the host asked a mid-aged lady, where she thought the Appalachian mountains are. Her answer: South America. Touche….!

And of course last but certainly not least the commonly known fact – Americans are obese and gun crazy. The only good thing that Americans did was to elect Barack Obama as President. That gave me at least a small glimmer of hope that there is light at the end of the tunnel…

Not to be a complete jerk, I’ve also met some very nice people here who I’ve enjoyed working with.

So, no offence to anybody about what I’ve written here, but I couldn’t be happier to go back to Finland.

More thoughts

http://www.7dvt.com/2008/finnish-ambassador-tells-it-it-most-livable-place-earth

Okay, okay. So Suomi is amazing and all that. But tell me this then: why is the suicide rate the highest in the world (and among the Scandinavian countries)? Why are there strict drunk driving laws (yes, I am asking directly, why is there alcoholism)? And of course, why is the country almost 100% homogenous? It is only diluted by other Europeans, like Russians and Swedes. Why not more diversity and multiculturalism?
Finland is not the best country in the world and still has to make strides to even get on the top 10 list.
Explain that perkele.

Get a life all u finland haters

In USA they say that finland is the number 1 plase to live!:P

Man i have been living, working and studying here in finland for almost 7 years now, and most of this time has been pretty difficult! I actually just sent a message to a friend of mine about how much i feel like attacking my Finnish co-workers from behind and bit them for no reason!(and i am not agressive at all…. They just say they are shy but they are actually really rude and they know it! The question is why they are so rude and proud? or what they are actualy proud of? They say finns are depressed cuz of weather! how about canadians or russian? they live in the same conditions (if not worth) and they are still happier!!!
Man i just think we all should save our mentality and get out of here cuz at least me,,,, i am going insane here. Btw for those of you who might say yes another looser Pitza guy complaining (the Finns) yep save it! for your info (The finns) I am studying MBA in helsinki University. so no looser talk here!

Oh and btw,,, Finns are so proud of winning the winter war against Russia…. I have to admit they did fight and they did defend their country bravely but they never won the war since the lost the most economic area of Finland to Russia (Karjala) So being brain washed is also a big big issue here. They really think that they won the war,,, I mean common Finland Vs Russia?? do the math

I hate Finland. I hate the people – cold, unfriendly antisocial bastards. I hate the food – the salmon soup and their herrings of the week. I hate the weather – horrific winters followed by manic summers. I hate their hobbies – saunas and freezing dunks. I hate their idea of good times – going to the datcha, getting drunk and pissing in a porta pottie. I hate their ugly pale complexion. I hate their long haired anti Christ youth. I hate their heavy metal death bands. I hate their boring city of Hekstinky!!!!!

hey, I am the same guys who said i feel like attacking my co-workers:)just wanned to give you an update about my situation, I still feel like attacking them:D some of them are ok (the finns) but mostly they think that they are smarter than the rest of the world. Btw i was walking in prisma yesterday and two guys (about 19 years old) saw me and one of them said VITTUN ULKOMALAINEN,,, meaning fucking foreigner. Now i am 100 kg and i can tell you i was 3 times bigger than those guys, but they still said what they said and i just gazed at them wondering how stupid they are.
to be honest i have been considering going to a psychologist and discuss my anger or depression. i dont wanna take depression pills since i know the problem is not from my side but i don’t know. maybe the pills help a little bit to not get overly aggressive toward the stupid snub two face Finns…. or what do you guys think?

I have lived here for about 3 years. It is a horrible country to live in. The people are boring, introverted, and rude. It takes such a long time to explain the simplest thing to them. I speak Finnish, work , and study. Nonetheless, I am going crazy. I am going to leave, and celebrate the day as if it was my new birthday.

People are really polite in Finland. And its one of the best places to live in… You are just a spoiled brat. And a satan worshipper

Idiot. The suicide rate is highest in Japan. Where have you got your knowledge, from your mother?

I ONLY WANT TO SAY THAT FINNS ARE SHIT. NEVER LOVE THEM

I’ve been in Finland only 3 months, but I can truly say that I love it: the country, the people, the language and everything Finnish. These are a few reasons:
1. When I got out of the Helsinki airport I was a bit confused and didn’t know where the right bus stop was…I asked a lady and (seeing that I am a foreigner) she went to every bus there to ask if that was the right one for me;
2.  An old man saw I was a bit sad one day on the street, and he gave me an apple and told me I to brighten up
3. The educational system in Finland is great: I taught as an assistant in 2 schools and the pupils learned so many interesting things through experiments and games
4. Finns have a really healthy life: diet and exercise

For those living in Finland now: why just complain? If you don’t like the country, leave! Maybe others want to work there.

It is quite possible that Finland is an interesting country, I leave that to others to decide.

I can however attest that my own time in Finland can only be paraphrased by: such-a-bloody-experience-never-again. I am looking forward to the end of the month when my assignment here ends and I can leave.

I have lived and worked in some 20+ countries all over the world, including some very poor developing countries and some places considered dangerous. In any of these countries there were at least as many nice experiences than there were unpleasant ones. Not so with Finland. The only pleasant experiences I have had in six months were: 1) buying apple juice, 2) dealings with our non-Finnish landlord and 3) a day trip to Tallinn in neighbouring Estonia.

Yet, before I came to Finland I had a very high opinion of the country. This has been totally shattered and I do not wish to come here ever again.

Well, where did you live in America? I’m certainly sure you must have hung out in some sewer or southern state . I think you’ve got your wires crossed mate. Finland is a far cry from civilized and every
time I walk out the door there are tons of drunk people, dirty, and disgusting and run your countries social system to the the ground. 
Finland is a disgusting and disappointing country to live in ..and i’m sure that’s why you can’t wait to get back to this shit hole of a place! 

Then go home you fucking Finn

well u r bighedded now when u  r at home hmm who is the pussy

Some of you guys are just weak; to be honest you can leave country but your loser attitude remains where ever you go. Challenges are to be faced, not to run away from…

You have just proved my point. You called me a devil worshiper without meeting me. Finnish intelligence at work.

Hello!

I have to write here something. I am Finn, woman, lived 10 years away in 5 differ.countries, have pretty much similar  opinions than most of you have.I am originally from small town in easter Finland, so coutry side in a way.
I would like to know: is it possible that we all “haters”or opiniated people would meet for and discuss of our experiences and that way get some perspective and support???
I have been in quite a few foreign groups and got positive dicussions from there. I am studying multicultural masters degree and hoping that with my own experiences and feelings perhaps there could be future solotuions for others.
So anyone up for OPEN and friendly discussion, Please inform here!!!

I spent a bit of time there and hated every second. Dismal and sour till they got hammered and then next day back to sour… My girlfriend had gotten married , had child and divorced as her husband was violent and messed with everything he could put his hands in or on.. She got married again, SAME THING!… Now she has 3 years of welfare. no job. Is Russian and encounters prejudice everywhere. Stuck with kids and no way to further herself.. Wont come to USA from fear due to the news.. I have travelled all over the world many times and Finland was the absolute worst place i have ever been, sub Saharan Africa was more interesting.. and better food. with smiles! I will be leaving my girlfriend to the life she depends on and hates at same time..

Karjala = A fucking wasteland

Coming from a finnish person…

100% YOU ARE CORECT.FINNISH PEOPLE ARE DIRTY ANIMAL I BELIVE THAT)

100% YOU ARE CORECT.FINNISH PEOPLE ARE DIRTY ANIMAL I BELIVE THAT)

finland is terorist country.finnish are terorist)

i love you baby.fuck finland)

hahaha yeah?real?cunt pussy.we all know fiinish are sick mental hahhaha

do you mean #1 mental people in the world?oh yes 
cunt 

Having read most of the comments I’m annoyed to see how negative some of you
are, if you don’t like living here in Finland, stop crying about it and move
back to where you came from.. You are having this stereotype about us Finns
being rude and all, but could it be because of your behaviour? If you are rude
to us, we are rude to you.. Can anyone name atleast one country that doesn’t
have its bad sides? It’s easy to say Finland sucks to live at as a foreigner if
you have no idea what it’s like to be a foreigner in your own country.

     I’m 17 years old and currently studying in upper secondary school in
Vantaa (close to Helsinki). It’s true that young Finns are more open minded than
older people. The hate on foreigners is usually because of our own experiences
with some of them.

     My own experiences with foreigners and even other Finns have been 50/50.
Some are really nice and all, and some are annoying.. Just don’t stereotype a
whole country by few people you have met. Maybe your negative attitude on
everything made Finns not like you? If you are polite and open minded to us, we
do the same.

     If you only focus on the bad sides, you miss the good ones.. I know my
comment is pretty confusing but I’m trying to make a point. I don’t want to be
rude or anything but to those who are hating Finland, or any other country, look
in the mirror. Your own actions determine how people will act towards you.