Keep the state the hell out of religion
According to this article from YLE, more and more people are leaving the Lutheran Church…
Nearly 30,000 people resigned from the state-supported church last year, 152 people more than in the previous year.
So are Finns all of a sudden dropping Christianity? Are they done with the whole Jesus thing? Does it have something to do with that 1% or 2% which is taken out of their paychecks each month? How many times have you heard a Finn say, “Well I belong to the church, just so I can get married” or “Only my spouse is a member of the church because we want our baby to be christened”?
If the government detached themselves from the Finnish church and didn’t garnish your wages each month - would that increase membership or decrease it? On one hand, people would be less likely to drop out due to the 1 or 2% fee - but on the otherhand if they didn’t require you belong to the church in order to be married or have a christening…membership would decrease.
Of course, money for the church has to come from somewhere, it would be unfair of you to join the church but not pay your dues. But I wonder - would the pastors rather have their parishoners abandon the church or remain with the church and not pay their 1 or 2%? What would Jebus do?
The Luthern Church of Finland could move towards the U.S. system where the government is not (supposed to be) attached to the church. American churches seem to be quite wealthy and attendance is quite high. Under the U.S. system, my country is full of religious whackos……..on second thought, let’s just keep the Finnish system the way it is. 
I think that Jesus would say, that keep the state and church separate, independent, and responsible for their own actions. There are a lot free Christian churches in Finland, not only in the U.S., and their membership is by choice, and economy based on voluntary giving, not on taxes. I dont say that this is necessarily better, and may even cause “controlling” of the members, which I understood also happens in the Jehova’s Wittnesses.
Comment by Jill — Mon, Feb 28th, 2005 @ 6:25 pm
Well you can get married in a church too even though you don’t belong to a church. They all do accept money after all
I just separated from the church before the turn of the year and recruited some other guys to come with me. It’s mostly that 1-2% that’s the problem, I feel alot more safe by donating the money to red cross or whatever where the money has at least gone through me and I actually put it towards a cause that I can at least have a hunch of where it’s going.
Comment by Reko — Mon, Feb 28th, 2005 @ 10:20 pm
I left it to join the Catholic Church. So, there can be other reasons for it than saving money
Comment by Stello — Tue, Mar 1st, 2005 @ 3:08 am
Ironically, when confronted by Pharisees about whether Jews should pay taxes to Rome, Jesus counseled to “give to Rome [in taxes] what is Rome’s, and give to God what is God’s” - a clear statement, as I see it, for the separation of church and state.
I just don’t see state churches, from the papacy on to protestant state churches, as being nothing but in contravention to Christian beliefs, which in early history were always in conflict with state power. (For the record, I should point out that I’m an atheist.)
It is surprising that the various church political parties in Scandinavian countries, and the Social Democratic parties, - though ideologically placed on the extremes of the left and right - are so often in tone and demeanor quite in sync with each other. On examination, though, it makes sense. Both purport to care about the people, but both are conjoined in their belief in the primacy of the state (and the state church) in expressing this care for the people.
As a libertarian, I would like to see a shaking off of all this unwanted care from these… creeps.
Comment by Finnpundit — Tue, Mar 1st, 2005 @ 4:51 am
(I should correct myself pronto - before someone pipes up - by noting that I should have said that the Sosdems and the Christians are ideologically placed on the extremes of each other to the left and right…)
Comment by Finnpundit — Tue, Mar 1st, 2005 @ 6:26 am
Ah, Finnpundit, if you read the Acts you are correct - the early Christians were communists, so they really are left-wing compared to the SocDems. Look what happened to poor kulak Ananias…
Comment by Hank W. — Tue, Mar 1st, 2005 @ 10:00 am
At least the beginning of this state church thing is *uplifting*. Henry VIII wanted to get married every once in a while and Gustaf Wasa of Sweden needed a good excuse to loot the rich monasteries.
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